Can a woman do Karezza if the man isn't into it?

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Submitted by emerson on
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To me, Karezza is a mutual experience. It is more than just being "non orgasmic". I think it's pursuing sexual intercourse with the goal of bonding and union without the interference and interruption of orgasm and all the goal-seeking and arousal-climbing that orgasm entails.

It isn't possible to do Karezza really unless both partners are into it.

But Darryl has said his wife was having orgasms for years before she chose to stop having them. And my experience is a bit similar so far.

So here's the point.

I can see how if a woman orgasms sometimes and is not really into the whole Karezza thing, the guy can still remain non-orgasmic. That's my case really. My wife isn't totally on board with *no* orgasms. We enjoy true Karezza most of the time but sometimes she wants an orgasm and that's fine with me.

I figure she's a big girl and is capable of making her own decisions.

And her orgasm doesn't stop me from having Karezza with her most of the time because she isn't having orgasms most of the time either. She and I are practicing Karezza really and truly and orgasms are only once in awhile on the table for her.

But what if it was reversed. What if she wanted to practice connecting with intercourse and having a bonding meditative sexual experience all the time, but what if I wasn't into it?

What if I insisted on coming when we had sex? I would want to come all the time, and then that would kind of end it for her. And there would be the whole "get me aroused" thing.

I can't see how that would work really well.

What are your thoughts about Karezza if the man isn't into it? Is it even possible in any way, shape or form?

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Yes

There are some letters in the book "Tantric Love Letters" from women who were in the situation where their men just weren't interested in trying conscious sex.

Diana's advice was that tantra is really an individual experience (when you are looking at just the idea of going within yourself and being conscious) and a woman can feel her breasts, relax her pelvic floor, remain calm and keep her movements from matching the man's fast/heated movements. She feels confident a woman is powerful enough to slow a man down just by her *own* presence. (we are the vessel and we have that power)

Over time, the man will become so magnetized by this way of being he will fall into the same patterns. It will be impossible for him to act conventionally when in her presence.

There are *many* times when I am able to slow us *both* down by taking my breathing down a notch and remaining still and present; in fact, my lover depends on me to do that~~if I go, he goes, lol.

Heating up is such a distraction

I just had a test drive with a man who I thought might be a buddy to try this out with. (I've been 8 1/2 years out of a relationship.) I told him all about this, and we spent a couple of hours trying the clothes-on snuggling, but he just didn't seem to know what to do if not going for heating things up.

It was quite distracting for me, and I also didn't quite know how to respond when he went over into those heat-'em-up touches, positions, and movements, which moved faster than some of the erotic ones with which I was trying to stay focused.

I didn't know if he just didn't know what to do, or, was trying to test the boundaries. He had told me he knew about tantra, and holding back, but didn't seem keen on No-O.

I felt like I was back in high school again, being the gatekeeper that we females have had to do all our lives, and now I don't even feel like seeing him again. Have spent much time this week rehearsing scripts to end it.

I know this is an old post, and I'm grateful all these stories are here for my research, so I don't have to go out and re-invent the wheel.

from a man's point of view

it's always like, "will she get heated up and want to do it all the way?"

If I can get her really hot she'll want to have me inside her...

Even today with my woman it's the same thing to some extent or another. That's why we sort of schedule sex vs. cuddling, but since we only "sort of" schedule it, it is always possible that if I get her hot, we'll have intercourse. I deal with this in the best way possible, and it's really not a big deal. I read her and know what to do. Sometimes she'll offer to have me inside her out of a sense of obligation or wanting to make me happy, and sometimes I'll accept and sometimes I'll say "you really don't feel like it" and will decline.

I think for a man who is a "buddy" this would be very very difficult. If I were that man I would definitely be thinking the whole time, "hey if I can get her turned on, then we'll be doing it!"

 

aw, emerson . . .

you're so cute. Yes, this is a guy answer, and which is helpful for me to hear how it actually works with you and your woman. No matter how great the commitment to Karezza, it is still a practice - a DISCIPLINE. Sounds like there always must be one or two gatekeepers.

That's why I ended up

creating The Exchanges. No one wants to be a gate keeper...besides, I often found I was the worst offender. Wink

A bit of structure lets everyone relax because they KNOW what's in store. Without that, the old patterns reassert themselves.

But please don't blame him. Who can blame him for wanting to be inside you? Just help him set a structure and then make him the pilot.

okay, I admit the same . . .

that even clothes-on I wasn't totally cool nor every action "relaxed." But I was pretty good with the limits I set for myself.

I had told him about the exchanges. He never asked to see the book. He argued against using the Exchanges as being too structured, and claimed he makes love intuitively and prefers to have things spontaneous.

Sigh, I knew not to argue. He had claimed he usually didn't "cum" or have ejaculation with his prior GF's. I had my doubts, he's in his '60's and believes what he believes.

Still think maybe one or more of these:

1) I'm not ready yet for prime time
2) I'd like to read more here of others' experiences and be better prepared
3) Maybe I will just wait for the man to show up with whom I might entertain a serious relationship

The weird thing is, after that last rendez-vous with a real person, I've been practicing on my own and found myself deteriorating in my own resolve (yes, just as you said, Marnia), and then back to G-spot massage, telling myself it wasn't really orgasm with the fallout. I saw the debate elsewhere on this site about that.

I think I just felt sorry for myself for feeling frustrated with being with him. Had gotten my hopes up to practice.

Back to step 1.

It's all about intention

From all that I've learned so far, having accidental orgasms, struggling with heating up, slipping into old habits, etc. are all normal within the context of learning "the Karezza way". That's very different from being unwilling to even consider it. I think I a LOT of women want something more from their sexual exchanges with men; they just don't know how to articulate it like you do. Maybe you should try telling him what you really want and why it's so important to you. You might find his response surprising, especially if you're coming from an open-hearted, vulnerable place when you deliver the message.

I think it all comes down to intention. What is my intention when I touch my wife? Is it needy vs. nurturing touch? Is there actually love and generosity behind it, or am I just looking to get off? I'm sure women are guilty of needy touch too sometimes, but I bet it's much more of a problem with men. Another way to put it: you rarely hear a man complain about feeling used by a woman. I love the way emerson describes a man's thought process around "is it going to happen". He could not be more right about that. But even with my new understanding, and good intentions, I can still get caught up in the heat of the moment, go beyond the 6 or 7 on the heat-o-meter, and start "doing her" rather than "being with her". Sometimes it feels like a razor's edge to me.

My point is that both partners should be clear about their intention when they touch (even themselves). Are you looking for the big O? Are you fantasizing about some scenario in another time or place? Are you in the here-and-now? Karezza is strongly related to the ideas in Tantra; at least the ones that involve bringing conscious awareness to the sexual realm, and to let go of goal orientation in all of its forms. It's quite the difficult task to gain conscious control over our primitive instincts. Those instincts are strong enough to produce 7 billion individuals alive today (and climbing rapidly). After an orgasm, I always find myself back in the struggle for a few days. But I try to remind myself of what I really want, and how I can't get it the old way; eventually, I prevail.

I think it's totally fair of you to ask your partner, even new or casual ones, to be with you rather than to just do you. Until you expect that from them, then it could take you a long time to randomly find someone who is already doing that. It's not about making the man wrong for being a man, but just educate him about what you really want and how you want it. I bet you can make it fun if you get creative. Be his sexual guide. I will say this: I was very interested [in the information] when my wife finally confessed that sex hadn't been very pleasurable for her; that she would often try and find excuses to avoid it, etc. Things are phenomenal with us now, but I was doing my best before; I just didn't have the information I needed. I knew there was a problem, I just didn't know what it was.

You are all so articulate

what thoughtful and accurate descriptions you have posted here. They help me tremendously in understanding what is going on with my initial trial and errors, what to try to get different results, and what the possibilities and potentials are. That is inspiring!!

In much appreciation,
~S <3