Husband in orgasmic marriage discovers karezza

Submitted by Karezza Korner on
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6-30 After being married for 25 years (we are in our late 50s) this is a new one for us. I must say it is different, a good different. Before Karezza my wife and I had what I consider to be a great sex life, orgasm driven and goal oriented though it was. We had sex about every other day with mutual orgasm about twice a week and me orgasming every time, that was always the goal, orgasm. Me hoping she would cum, her hoping I would cum, her hoping she would cum, you know the drill. Although my wife only orgasmed once maybe twice weekly I always felt like I needed to do more to get her to cum more often.

Now, that doesn't exist and what a difference! Our sex life has taken on a whole new look and feel. I used Cialis for about the last four years due to some ED issues and I don't even need that anymore, amazing! My erections are getting back to where they were ten years ago, happening sooner with less physical stimulation and being as hard as they ever were, and even though I sometimes loose my erection during Karezza, it comes around again, every time so far, and that never happened before, once it was gone, it was gone. I can only think it must be because the pressure to last and to perform are gone, what a relief.

So we are reading the book by Lloyd, enjoying this journey and taking it one day at a time. We are practicing Karezza every day right now for about an hour or more but I suppose that will change as we get more into it. I guess right now it is still a novel thing for us and we will probably get back the every other day routine. I must admit I do miss those huge orgasms we had together but the trade-off, so far is worth it.

We have always been a bonding couple. It seems like this was just what we needed at this point in our marriage at this time, not easy to explain, but so far it's working. Yesterday we discovered the "Karezza oral sex" gear, WOW! I never would have imagined what it could be like not finish a session like that without orgasms, never would have dreamed of it, but all I can say is WOW! Just as intercourse is very gentle and slow and lengthy, so was this, it took some focusing and thought to "stay" where we needed to be, but it did work. It was not mutual oral sex but individual. It also took some communication between us to let each other know when to give things a break before they got too heated up.

We have had orgasmless intercourse many times over the last 25 years, just as a means of bonding, but never knew what it was called and never continued with it, always went back to having orgasms, which for us almost always are simultaneous. With orgasmless sex, when it was over, it was over, kinda nice. A nice closeness and a nice feeling. I guess that is what Karezza is all about, I'm just not too sure about the whole 'no more o's ' concept. We are going to give it a try.

7-06 Does anyone have an opinion on edging while involved in Karezza? Wife and I are still new to this but it happened last night during intercourse and it was fun and good but we don't know if it is a good path to go down or not. Several times we both got so close to orgasm, and though it was a bit difficult we managed to get things back to normal, whatever that is......

We use 100% pure cocoa butter as a lubricant. It is a hard stick when it is room temp but with a little body heat it quickly melts, we love the way it smells and tastes, like chocolate! It does not loose it's lubricity like some of the water based stuff.

7-07 Slamming on the brakes is no fun, it feels unnatural to stop the whole process. Seems like it is better not to go there. We can both have nice long bonding sessions without getting to the edge, so we are going to try to avoid going down that road, approaching orgasm and having to 'hold back'. The bonding effect is better without it, regardless of how good it feels. But it's all good!

I have suffered from sleep disorder for years but since Karezza came into our lives I sleep through the night. Don't know if it is just a coincidence or if it has something to do with no orgasms. This is all so amazing to me, how come we haven't heard more about Karezza over the years? This is the best thing that has ever happened to our marriage. I have also noticed stronger urine stream etc. The benefits are amazing.

7-08 I can't tell you how much it has meant to my wife and I to have this site available. Thank-you! I want to share this place with some friends but am not too sure how to approach it. My wife and I both agree, it would be great to help out some struggling couples we know. Just not too sure how to do it..

I am sure Fox News would be interested in this and with a little publicity it would be watched and talked about by lots of folks for a long time! With all the talk nowadays about gay rights, lesbian rights, etc., I would imagine this topic would be one they would like to discuss and debate.

The other way to understand things sometimes, is to follow the money, there is no money in this thing, certainly the Pharmacuetical companies don't want anyone to hear about anything that can help with ED and sleep dissorder, and they sure don't won't to hear about something that doesn't cost a dime, bringing feelings of wellbeing and happiness, without taking a pill, or spending thousands with counselors and shrinks. Imagine what the marriage counseling sector would have to say about it. I remember being told one time years ago that one way to measure the strength and success of a marriage was by the amount of sex and orgasms! How many times have men and women felt guilty because they didn't orgasm when making love with their mate? And you can imagine how this would go over with the porn industry, hahaha. Oh well enough of this, just glad we found it, or it found us....

7-11 Several years ago I used a balloon and a helium tank to explain to my wife how my orgasms worked. We would time our orgasms, so we could orgasm together, and sometimes when I was "ahead" of her I would need her to slow down (she was usually on top) to let me recover a bit. I would inflate the balloon until it almost popped and then release some of the helium and then I would refill it. I did this several times to show her how it worked. After several inflation/deflation cycles I let it fill up till it popped, BANG! BOOM! orgasm, dead balloon...... I did this to help her better understand how once the balloon popped (or I had my orgasm) it was all over. No more, done, finished, it's over, sorry about your luck. Now that we are practicing Karezza the balloon does get a bit inflated from time to time but being aware of what is happening an not "over-inflating" the balloon is what it is all about now. There is no more done, finished, it's over, sorry about your luck, which is what we are finding to be the beauty of Karezza. Both of us come away feeling satisfied and bonded not leaving either one out in the cold, helpless, in need, and unsatisfied. It would be nice to see Karezza out in the open.

7-14 The Hidden Factor is the next thing people need to be exposed to. That was what my wife and watched and that is what really got us through the initial learning curve.

I do believe there is a learning curve with Karezza, it's just not 'natural' for us to have sex without orgasm. It takes some education before the lightbulb comes on. Once it does come on it's like, "Wow, this makes sense!" but I don't think it's possible without some education. Those dumb c-nts on "The View" are a prime example of that. You should go to ABCs site and check those idiots out! Yeah, orgasms are the holy grail till you know better, especially when they are experienced together. Grandma used to say lard tasted good till you tried butter.

And what about this whole issue of a woman having "female sexual disorder" because she doesn't have regular, mind blowing orgasm? Now they are going to consider this another "disease" which will require more medical treatment and of course, some more pills you can take to get fixed of your disease. And I can hear husbands saying, "You need to get to the doctor honey and get checked out so you can start having orgasms again.  I hear there is a new pill to help fix your problem".

Oh well, enough ranting and raving, we aren't going to change the world that's for sure. I am just thankful that our marriage has been blessed with a new way to bond and be close. We are closer than ever. We have intercourse almost every day, without orgasms, neither one of us is horny or craving sex, just craving the bonding time together. It is so easy and so natural. It is amazing!

Experiment with returning to ejaculation: http://www.reuniting.info/blogs/luv2fly/going-back-sharing-my-semen

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Comments

The irony is that actually

The irony is that actually when sex slows down, and the focus moves from sensation to sensitivity, women become very orgasmic! They are no longer trying to catch up to the man. There is nothing more uninteresting to me than "catching up" to a man, even if I know how I can do so to "perform" the needed orgasm. After all, sex is happening inside the woman, not the man. The man needs to catch up with the woman, ie, sloooowwww down. Once the woman has been "met", there is nowhere she can't go. If she is not met in her own space at her own level, she will either fall behind or mechanically perform, neither of which opens her spirit and reveals her luminous, ecstatic feminine nature.

What a relief that some people are figuring this out! You're right though - its not good news for the pharmaceutical companies, because it cures men's erectile dysfunction and it also cures women's frigidity. All women needed this whole time to get over "frigidity" was a little warmth, presence, proper tempo, and affection -- what a concept! So easy to thaw out under these conditions.

So right

You sound so much like my wife! Don't know why it took so long to get this thing figured out. It's been right there all along. With orgasms out of the picture we just enjoy being together, the 'oneness' is much much better, with no focus on either of us individually, as there can be when there is a goal. Now we just focus on how close we are, and it lasts long after we get out of bedroom.

Three week chalenge

Well, we took Marnia's three week challenge and all I can say is WOW! I wish I had time to write more, it would take volumes, so for now all I can say is we are in, all in. Neither one of us has any intentions of having orgasms again, why would we, this is so much better. If anyone would have told me my wife and I could have intercourse for over an hour, every day, and neither one reach a climax I would have laughed, but it is true and it is amazing. Gotta run for now, spent an hour and a half this AM doing that Karezza thing, so now I'm late. Lol Thanks Marnia for all the info and this website, it has truly been a blessing to us!

Dittos

I've enjoyed reading your posts as well, they have been most helpful. Like I have said before, beginning Karezza takes some education as it is quite different from what our genes and society tell us is " normal". Different doesn't always come across as easy, so the posts and support are great.

I look at it this way

It may be old fashioned but a lot of our "civilization" is about overcoming our "natural" impulses in order to realize a higher more comfortable and happy level of existence.

There is nothing "normal" historically about anything we do from sleeping in a bed to having instant access to unlimited food any time we want.

So why not approach sex the same way? Consciously choosing instead of simply responding by reflex to our "natural" impulses.

It turns out there is a much higher much better way to have sex and maintain a relationship but we first have to do what isn't "natural" or "normal" -- but duh, that's true of everything better!

I love the phrase somone (Bianca? Hotspring?) coined here "conscious sex" I think it was. Consciously choosing to have sex a certain way, to go down a certain path. The thing is, for some this clicks right away. For others it takes awhile. Some revert back to "mating sex" and some have partners that don't "get" this at first or maybe ever.

But regardless, it's all about doing what we realize is best for us, rather than what "comes naturally" which is often inferior.

So right

That makes so much sense, I guess having a choice was something we just were not aware of. The only two choices I remember we're sex or no sex. It wasn't until we discovered Karezza that we saw there was more than one road to go down, now we are going down the road less traveled, which has always been the way we like to travel. So this comes kind of easy for us, in fact it's been too easy! Sometimes it makes me wonder, less effort, more satisfaction, how can that be? But isn't that the way life is, sometimes less is better. The journey is what it's all about, not the destination, not too sure what that destination even is, not too sure I even care at this point!

Good point

I have always felt great about sex, but this still does have that coming home, warm and fuzzy feeling, this is what feels "natural".

There was always a little distance between my wife and I, even though we had a great sex life, but that distance is slowly diminishing and we are bonded about as close as two people can be, it feels so good to let your guard down, let go and be vulnerable.

I still wonder why Karezza isn't more well known. My wife and I have been to numerous "couples retreats" over the years, one called the Marriage Encounter which lasted an entire weekend . It was great and we came away renewed and in love and all that and soon forgot everything they taught us, but what if they would have presented Karezza? It would not have been something we would have forgotten, thats for sure. And in our earlier years when things got a little rocky and we met with a Christian marriage counselor, never once was Karezza or anything like it ever discussed. I ask myself, how can this be, it was never even brought up as an option! Never even mentioned, why?

this is the subject that people just freak about

You get a lot of defensiveness and close mindedeness about everything but especially *this*.

Nobody knows about it and if they do they just can't get their arms around it. Witness that episode with Whoopi Goldberg, whatever that show is, video here somewhere. They just don't get it enough to even talk about it seriously.

People are clueless about sex, and the big barrier in my opinion is this idea that you should just do whatever you do, with no consciousness and no awareness.

We live in houses instead of the woods, we eat from food prepared by cooking and refrigeration. Nothing we do in our life is "normal" based upon how animals live. But when it comes to sex, it's as if we are supposed to all be the 2 million year man or woman.

The big myth is that orgasms bond you together. People will say "we have orgasms and we are close" but they don't really get that they could be closer, that maybe it isn't the orgasms.

And then, there is the boredom that develops in relationships built on mating sex. Your partner looks boring, sex is boring. The answer in pop culture is to escalate to sex toys, fantasy, anal, whatever. It's all about increasing the dopamine and feeding the habit for more and more stimulation.

People don't get that this may work for awhile but it isn't really satisfying or fulfilling on a deep level, and when you get a little older it takes its course and doesn't leave you anywhere good, really.

I think there must be a sort of mid life crisis for sex that is based upon the thrill of the dopamine rush being gone and "is that all there is" being left.

 

For 60 years

the meme about sex has been, "There's no such thing as 'too much.' The only things we humans have to fear, sexually speaking, are 'too little' and sexual 'repression.' And anyone who points to evidence of how sex can sometimes overstimulate the brain is 'pathologizing' sex."

This is like a self-sealing tire if you think about it. No "new air" can get in there. *chuckle* Is telling people that refined sugar and starch are causing health problems 'pathologizing' eating? Why is balance as a concept off limits in sex but not elsewhere (exercise, gambling, etc.)?

Trouble is, the first bit of dogma (There's no such thing as 'too much.') is wrong. It's based on ignorance of the vulnerability of the human reward circuitry to excess. Even subtle degrees of 'excess' cause perception shifts between lovers, especially after the honeymoon neurochemistry wears off.

We should thank the porn guys, because it's their miserable experience (and courageous recovery) that is showing us how inadequate the standard sex advice assumptions are.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to change well established memes that "everyone knows are true." Even the medical profession has fallen for this one. Unless a doctor came out of medical school in the last ten years, s/he hasn't been taught about the reward circuitry, the neurobiology of addiction, its relevance to sex, etc. S/he has only been taught the message at the beginning of this comment.

This other information is too new. I was fascinated to discover all this by talking with a doctor who was a pioneer in addiction. I wrote about our interview here: The Wages of Sexual-Addiction Politics

There's a massive re-education effort needed so people understand all their options and can steer for the results they want. Those who want casual sex can head down that track by following the standard script, and those who want ongoing relationships can steer for them by following the new information about the effects of sex on the brain and how attachment cues soothe and unite.

Willing men

Isn't it difficult to find men who would be willing to engage in Karezza on a casual basis? If they do are they doing it with all their partners?

haha

I wrote that without thinking much. Really, it does repel a lot of men - but not the good ones. The ones who have been open to it are artists, a psychotherapist, spiritual seekers, etc. I live on the fringes of the counterculture, where people like a good lifestyle experiment.

I'm glad

to hear you're finding a good space for you, whatever it entails. Would love to hear more about your experiences...in terms of insights others can also use.

Arousal level

So, we are now finishing up our fourth week. So far so good, no orgasms yet, close a couple of times though. We have a bit of a routine going now. We make love every morning for about an hour. Mostly in the spoons position. Sometimes scissors, sometimes her on top. My wife has never been very wet over the years but boy has that ever changed, she is having a huge fluid release almost every time now. It is so amazing. She doesn't seem to get to any level of arousal though, which kinda concerns me. She says she really enjoys Karezza, so we are both on the same page there. I just wonder why her arousal level isn't there, or is it something I need not to be concerned with?

Don't know but here's our experience

If you read or listen to Barry Long or read Richardson (who writes that Barry Long inspired her with a lot of what she learned) arousal isn't necessary or desirable. I guess it can go either way, from no arousal to quite a bit. I have quite a bit, my wife has virtually none.

We've been pursuing this for about seven months or so and we don't connect for that long. We connect for 15 or 20 minutes. My wife's attention is really just not yet on this and she doesn't have the interest to maintain a longer connection than that. And she doesn't get aroused either, and she doesn't lubricate all that well. When she does get aroused she has an orgasm and she's happy with it either way. So why shouldn't I be happy with it?

She enjoys it. She looks better, not just to me but to others. She is more youthful, has more of a sense of humor and more balance. It's just a blast.

 

The beauty of karezza

is that it brings male and female sexuality into harmony...not that it makes us identical. Just be content with making your wives "younger" and happier. That's quite enough for one magic wand. Wink Accept them as they are, and enjoy yourselves. That gives them pleasure too.

It is a blast!

I have noticed a certain glow about my wife as well, isn't that something?
I just felt a little guilty but probably shouldn't. It has been said before, it's all good! And it is a blast!

yep, I totally get it

I feel just a little guilty too.

I'm delving into the book Slow Sex which was recommended to me (thanks KevinJ and Darryl). It's about "orgasm" but not really. It's really about helping my woman become more present with her sexuality. I'm thinking that I'll try to persuade her to try the exercise in it. It's designed to help a woman feel sensations and become present in her body and it seems like it will be fun.

But meanwhile, this seems so good for both of us that I'm trying to avoid any guilty feeling. I get *so* much pleasure out of this. But she is almost a different person too. Physically and mentally, it's just extraordinary, so really, I shouldn't feel guilty at all.

 

Slow sex

As in Richardsons latest book? I got the impression that was a THOTS rewrite for a broader market. Or are we talking a diff book?

no this one

http://www.amazon.com/Slow-Sex-Craft-Female-Orgasm/dp/0446567183/

The book explains an exercise where you gently, oh so gently, massage her clitoris while she focuses and communicates about the sensation. That's basically it, in a nutshell. And the woman learns to focus on her sensations and to start feeling more and focusing mentally. It's another way to meditate with sex. I think it may be helpful in our relationship because her difficulty more than anything else is being present and picking up the sensations. 

 

Thanks

I am glad you cleared that up. I wasn't too sure about Nicole's approach, not there is anything wrong with it, it just seemed a little different from what Karezza is all about. Her big thing is a fifteen minute orgasm, what's up with that, what kind of recovery does it take to get over fifteen minutes of orgasm?

OneTaste / Slow Sex

Here's some other folks discussing her book here:

http://www.reuniting.info/comment/52837#comment-52837

I read this blog by one of their students, and found one of her comments interesting: "I can finally retrain my mind and body to relax and receive freely. There is no goal, I receive without concern for climax."   (Sounds awfully familiar to the way Karezza works for me.) 

http://www.onetaste.us/blog5/2012/06/healthy-sex/  

From what I've read, I do think it's overly precise-method & timing based, but that's how they sell the training classes and videos. 

Karezza's pretty much have sex, gently and often, with an open heart and a meditative mind.  Don't go for an orgasm, but if one happens, no biggie, maybe just go a little slower next time.

 

 

 

Slow Sex

I just read some reviews and looked at her YouTube video, sounds pretty interesting. Hope you will let us know how it plays out.

Nicole's book seems very worthwhile

Remember, Richardson's book for women has "Orgasm" in the title. Orgasms sell.

Nicole's book is not focused on orgasms at all. She isn't here or there on them. Actually it is all about making your entire sexual life one orgasm, kind of like the "place of pleasure" and the opposite of something to reach for and arrive at. So I would say Nicole's book has a role and is quite interesting. I still haven't tried it out as the timing isn't quite right but I plan to introduce the concept to my fantastic incredible partner.

Define 'orgasm'

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the last time I heard the definition of orgasm it didn't fit what she is talking about.

This is from Wikipedia
Orgasm (from Greek οργασμός orgasmos, from organ to mature, swell, also sexual climax) is the sudden discharge of accumulated sexual tension during the sexual response cycle, resulting in rhythmic muscular contractions in the pelvic region characterized by an intense sensation of pleasure.[1][2] Experienced by males and females, orgasms are controlled by the involuntary or autonomic nervous system. They are often associated with other involuntary actions, including muscular spasms in multiple areas of the body, a general euphoric sensation and, frequently, body movements and vocalizations are expressed. The period after orgasm (known as a refractory period) is often a relaxing experience, attributed to the release of the neurohormones oxytocin and prolactin.[3]
Human orgasms usually result from the stimulation of the penis in males, typically accompanying ejaculation, and the clitoris in females.[2][4][5] Stimulation can be by self-practice (masturbation) or by a partner (penetrative sexual intercourse, non-penetrative sex, and other erotic sexual activities). In addition, partners simultaneously stimulating each other's sex organs by mutual masturbation, penetrative intercourse, or other rhythmic inter-genital contact may experience simultaneous orgasms.

That sounds cool, have a continuos orgasm, but lets face it, that's not reality. I am 57 and I, like most guys my age have had thousands of orgasms and have seen my partner have thousands of orgasms, just do the math, (5 or so per week = 250 per year x 45 or so years = 11250. Thats enough orgasms to know what one is all about and what the definition of orgasm is. I don't know what to call what she is talking about but it doesn't fit the traditional definition for an orgasm that we are all familiar with. Maybe it should be called something else........But it sounds about as weird as sex with no orgasms doesn't it. Lol lol lol ha ha. I love this website! What sounds crazier, no orgasms, or one long continuous orgasm? As for me and my wife, the 'no orgasm' road is pretty smooth, no bumps or grinds or potholes, no traffic jams, few detours, a hairpin turn every now and then, no roadblocks, no speed limits, no police, no toll booths, sometimes a little construction work, sometimes 'slippery pavement ahead', great scenery around each curve, and over every mountain another surprise, and best of all, that road just stretches out in front of us begging for us to put some more miles behind us, so that's where we are heading, down that Karezza road, on cruise control with the seats laid back, crusin, not brusin, ha ha lol.

Need to stay bonded

So, we hadn't bonded since thurs am and it wasn't good. We just had so many things in our way over the weekend, family friends, etc. when we finally did get some time together on Sun afternoon/ evening it wasn't good. Don't know why or how but we ended up in a bit of an argument that led us to both saying some things we regretted later. We eventually made up and went to sleep. This AM we had intercourse for an hour and it feels like we are getting back on track although i dont think my wife was really into, but thats hard to know with her. The only feedback I get is when I ask for it and after last nights little tiff I thought it better to keep my mouth shut this morning. I know daily bonding is an important thing but had no idea we could get so far apart in such a short time. That was the first quarrel we have had in a month, it just kinda snuck up on us outta nowhere. I guess if nothing else we proved a point, STAY CONNECTED! More is better than less it seems like.

Yes, better not to discuss it just yet

For women stress neurochemicals remain elevated longer than for you guys, according to the work of Kiecolt-Glaser at Ohio State. So her nervous system may need a bit longer to return to ideal balance.

The good news is that the medicine is already working. Smile Less talk, more contact is the ideal formula. You men were right, after all.

Yes, bonding behaviors need to be almost daily for best results. The husband I quoted at the bottom of this article (who was Sood, by the way...from this forum) found the same thing you are. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/200909/the-laz...

Stress

That makes sense. We are back on track and have been able to spend some good time bonding which has such a tremendous healing effect, physical and mental. It is so amazing how this stuff works, and it is so simple!

Blimy

Back and forth round and round, tell us about it. Yes but you are absolutely right, so long as the intention is there, you will make it!

Your were right

We have made it. Not a single disagreement or problem for the last week. We also haven't missed a morning of lovemaking either, imagine that, daily bonding equals harmony in a marriage. Seems like I've heard that somewhere around here before.........

So true

It not only is a great way to repair things, it is a great way to keep things from needing repair! It does both. Prevents and fixes, pretty amazing is all I can say, pretty amazing. Thank-you!

New goal?

For the most part our lovemaking ( we don't call it sex anymore which is a whole nother subject) consists of about an hour of PVI every morning which is just beautiful, each and every time is just perfect. We have had days where we got to enjoy PVI twice in one day which is rare. This morning we talked about having PVI for three times in one day, which was my idea, but it kinda sounds like we would be setting a goal, don't know if that is a good idea or not? We have not made love three times in one day for at least twenty years so we thought it might be fun.........just don't know if setting a "goal" is a good thing or not. Up until this point our only goals have been not to orgasm and not to set any goals. Any thoughts from you Karezzanauts?

Feedback

Today marks eight weeks that we have been on this Karezza journey and so far it is two thumbs up, it has for the most part been great and we are both in agreement to continue having intercourse and bonding with no orgasms. It has become a daily thing for us to have Karezzacourse (new word?) each morning for about an hour. The effects are just amazing, when I get time I intend to put them all together. The only issue so far is with me and with the lack of feedback I receive. My wife has never been one who was comfortable talking about sex and that hasn't changed, at least not yet, but I am hopeful. During our previous sex-life I used to get great feedback from her during intercourse and during orgasm. This was of course a natural result of a high level of arousal. The moans & groans, the sighs and the outbursts were all very good feedback for me. Well, now that we are not reaching that level of arousal all that has stopped, except for my occasional vocals when I am just in a state of extasy, and since we can't talk about it I'm feeling kinda needy. It seems like I am always asking her about her experience and if she enjoyed it and was it satisfying enough, etc, etc. it's like I need to know and I don't.

Now I understand this may be a male ego thing and if that is the case I can work on that from my end. My question is do I just let it go and accept it as part of the 'Karezza package' or should I approach her about it and ask for some feedback from her while we are making love, seems like asking for it would be counterproductive...........
I would love to get some feedback (ha ha) and advice from some of you more experienced Karezzanauts.

Usually

I find that talking about it the next evening works, when we are just cuddling on the couch. We also read a lot together and this is a time we often exchange experiences.

But one thing is for sure you cant rush a women. She will open in her own sweet time, not one second sooner!

All you can do is model the behavior, the easier and more mundanely you treat the topic in conversation, the easier it will become for her.

For me maybe learning and thinking about something, then trying it works, i suspect for her its more a matter of trying it for a while then learning and thinking about it.

Men are from mars as they say.

Happy karezza-ing.

it's kind of like faith

you have to believe.

I'm in this with my wife now for 8 months and I know she is seldom aroused. But I think it's okay. I mean, she willingly participates and seems a lot better off in every measure I can see. I wish she would be more aroused, but should she be? I am positive that she should not be, not at this moment. It's my thinking that is off here. She's doing just fine. If she doesn't want something she is very good (now) about telling me!

Thanks guys

I always appreciate your thoughts and insight. I will just be patient and not rock the boat as things are going along pretty smooth right now. Emerson, it seems like our wives have a lot in common and I am thankful that my wife remains as willing as she is. It's all good.

A bump in the road

Well I guess things were going along too good to be true, and out of nowhere we have hit a bump in the road. Don't know where it came from or why but here we are in the ditch again. We have been enjoying Karezza on a daily basis now for over two months, in the mornings. My wife has never been much of a morning person, which I know, and deal with. But, the only time we can bond is in the mornings as the rest of the day is just to unpredictable for us. We have been waking much earlier than we did during pre-Karezza days, about an hour or so, to give us the time we needed. So the other morning I get blasted by miss grumpy britches cause I woke her up too early. She said some hurtful things that she later apologized for, one of them was "we just do the same ole thing every morning", implying that she was tired of the whole thing, it really was a setback for me. That was several days ago and we have not bonded since and right now don't have any plans to. We seem to be getting along OK so I think we are just going to give it a break for awhile and see where that leads us, hopefully not too distant from one another.
One interesting observation on my part has been that I am neither horny nor needy, I'm just content, which I am sure is a result of no O's over the last several months. I have never been this way before so I can only assume that is the reason, it's kinda nice, not as nice as daily bonding and intercourse, but it is what it is for now and I am sure we will get thru it.

Daily

I know Dianne says daily is good, but i think theres something in Marnias view that days off are good too. Perhaps especially in the beginning. We are doing tuesday, thursday and saturday, and thats working really well so far.

Women love to please and as a result can sometimes go along with things they arent completely bought into, sure enough, but id also be suspecting just a plain old witchy old hormone swing. Maybe itll pass?

Congrats on your self sufficiency, balance, and resolution to avoid O.

Anything you do

every day can feel like pressure to one partner or the other. Since you're not as needy now, I think you're wise to cut back...on everything but a few minutes of bonding every day. Don't let that slide. Maybe experiment with Louie's energy sending technique. I think you'll soon be invited back in.

Thanks

Thanks for that tree, the every day routine was fun while it lasted but maybe it is just too much for her and it maybe a routine that is not a good fit for us as a couple, which is really what its all about isnt it. You are probably right about those hormones, they can throw you a curve before you even know what happened, so we move on, one day at a time.

Hey I've been there...

1. Don't stop bonding. Cuddle and snuggle and kiss and don't move to intercourse. She is probably thinking she has no control over what goes on and she feels angry about that feeling of not having control. Understandable. The bonding is really important! Truly, EVERYTHING works out when you do bonding preferably every day. Really, this is the key to life itself and happiness. Something so simple. Even if you feel angry or she does, don't stop the bonding. It will make everything okay

2. These hiccups happen. They still happen with me as I've written. But we continue bonding with each other. Nothing is too serious when you do that.

3. When *you* feel a certain way, don't expect your partner feels that way too. This is a message I got over the past 8 months very clearly. I don't ask her how she feels all the time as that gets annoying, but I try to figure it out honestly. 

When you keep the bonding up, everything is fine. This won't even matter. It will be okay. You can both agree on a schedule which takes the pressure off and lets her know she has control too, and that this isn't something she has to feel obligated to every day.

 

 

 

Good post

Great post emerson.

My sex life went off track after we had kids, and for a long time I was desperate to try and fix that. I read a lot of books and tried a lot of techniques to try and get my wife interested in sex again. We had lots of fights on the subject as well, which only made it worse.

A month ago I started the daily cuddling experiement and that changed everything. I can see my wife opening up before my eyes. We are both learning how to relax and enjoy exchanging energy with each other again. It is wonderful to exeperence it growing day by day.

At present time intercourse is not a big part of our lives. There are various reasons for this. I have decided to not push things on that front for now. I would rather that it come about naturally on its own. We will do it when it feels right to do it, and not before. Daily intercourse is appealing as an idea, but it does not FEEL right at this point. There is something inside of me that tells me that we are not ready for that yet. I have decided to listen to the inner voice.

Thanks again

Thanks again, it is so good to have a sounding board like this, it is really a big help. Emerson,you are such an encouragement, I will try to get the bonding up and running again. If it happens it will be because of my efforts not hers. But that is how it has been since we met., duh, why would I expect anything else?

Remember,

the goal is to find a middleground you can both enjoy, not to make her conform to your ideal. You probably have a broader range of happy outcomes than you think, so look for the silver lining once she's feeling loving again.

Letting things be natural

I find that the further I go along this path of sexual rebalancing and healing, the less important it feels to try and move things along. I am becoming more and more relaxed about the whole thing. The sense of urgency is fading away. I suppose that is a good indicator that my wife and are actually quite well balanced.

I also find that the whole dynamic between my wife and I has changed. I am no longer so desperate to try and create bonding opportunities or sexual opportunities. Rather, I just kind of let them happen when they need to happen.

As I am typing this, the following visual metaphor comes into my mind:

I have become like a nice hearth fire. I am always radiating warmth and comfort. My wife knows that she can warm herself at this fire anytime that she needs to ... but she does not always need to. Sometimes she wanders off to do other things, and then returns to warm herself again. That is fine. She might go days without needing to be warmed. That is OK. She will come to the fire when she needs to. The fire will burn whether she is there or not. Even when she is miles away, doing her own thing, she knows that the coals are burning, and they will still be burning when she gets home. All she needs to do is throw on some more wood, stir the embers, and sit back to bask in the warm glow again.

Thus, even though I never try to make her sit down and bond with me, it tends to happen anyway in a rarther organic fashion. She stops what she is doing to get a hug or a kiss. She sees me on the couch and plops down beside me for a cuddle. Sometimes she just looks at me in a way that says " I need to feel special right now" and I walk over to give her what she wants. The next day she might not need me at all. She is fine on her own. That is OK. I am not going to tell her that she has to bond with me. She will come for it when she needs it again.

I rather like things this way.

OH, the middle ground....

I know your pain, Luv2Fly. I think all of us know that we cannot force anything on our Significant Others. That ploy only backfires.

A middle ground is what my wife and I are hoping to find as well. I'm with you and probably many other men who would just prefer to have daily pvi. It just seems like a natural place to be for us. I don't think that's ever going to happen long term for the two of us. And especially in the morning. PW is not wired for early morning love making. She's too goal oriented and needs to get to work. So, both PW and I are hoping to that middle ground through our practice of the Ecstatic Exchanges.

My wife def senses my feelings. She shared this morning that the exchanges have been wonderful for her. She feels at peace, in love, and she is sleeping better. Then she said, "At the same time I sense that you have been just counting the days until we can make love (pvi) again." LOL. Yep, she's right. But, that's me, what can I say?

We shall all hang in there together, and hope for that balance.

A spouse who feels

relaxed and loving desires to accommodate the other. So you stand the best chance of finding a happy middleground when everyone is in this mindset. Kiss 3

As you know, we listen to a lot of men who are recovering from extremely frequent masturbation to porn. Many are amazed to discover that as their brains settle down, their libido (which was actually cravings, not libido) becomes much more manageable. They move in the direction Louie is describing.

I'd say Gary is there too. He's always ready, but never aching with desire. We have sex frequently, but generally not every day. As recounted in our book, when we were on the every day schedule, he felt like a motor that was constantly overheating...just in case we might have sex. When we allowed a day in between he felt much calmer...because he knew that there were days when he would not be having sex. This helped his nervous system train to relax. At the same time, the (still) frequent sex and daily snuggling also kept him feeling well nourished. Result: two flexible, happy campers.

What I hear, Rev, is that you are persuaded that your nervous system will never find a balance and that you will always feel as horny and miserable as you do right now unless your wife cooperates with your plan. Maybe that's true, but on the whole, I think we all "believe" our neurochemical messages too much. In fact, as balance changes, we change, and our feelings/horniness change. Just in case this "wants" to happen, stay open to it. You'll know within a week or two.

*big hug*

Im a bit of both

Im not quite at that hearth stage, but have a sense of it. Its got to the point where I don't have any sense of lack or craving or wanting more from her at all. I touch her respectfully, look at her respectfully, and almost know how she feels about me doing otherwise. The less i care whether she takes clothes off or how many when we cuddle, the more she takes off. Its all, i have to say, radically, radically refreshing.

For us three times a week, is really working, she's come up from twice a month, and me down from twice a day. lol. She agrees when we review that its made a big difference to our lives, and it feels sustainable. I've been noticing her teeth lately and i suddenly realised why, its because she's smiling so much, not just in special moments but a general sense of smile.

The schedule means:
a) that i can relax, and not stress about when next will be,
b) that she can relax when we cuddle or kiss and know that im not going to try to escalate it.
c) i can relax when we kiss, knowing shes not stressing about me stressing.
d) she gets some pvi when she really-needs-it-but-doesnt-feel-like-it (tm),
e) i get a rest when i think-i-need-it-but-dont (tm).

With such regular connecting and nurturing, i think it is inevitable that Louie's hearth thing will soon be mine also. Just have to kick the PMO thing for good. Not doing so well there!

Glad to hear this report

It reminds me of the idea that abundance can be achieved two ways: GET more, or NEED less. I was amazed to discover that it's the same way with sex. Balance your reward circuitry and you're less needy, so your sex life feels more satisfying.

Or overstimulate yourself regularly...and you feel extremely needy, dissatisfied and resentful. Once I had reframed things, the choice was surprisingly conflict-free.

Execution took a while to master though, so all of you are right on schedule. I-m so happy

Such good stuff

All this stuff is so good, it is so helpful to have all this input. What a wonderful resource this place has become. What I am hearing has been a big help and I am going to just relax and try to become that fire on the hearth, I just loved that Louie. In the beginning we were both comfortable with daily PVI but as we are moving along it seems like every day is a bit much. I have seen that my need is not physical anymore and not having intercourse doesn't drive me crazy anymore, which is nice. So my next move is going to be not to make a move, seems like that is what works best for now.

Clarification

Just to clarify, I do not make my wife openly initiate sex. If I did that, I could be waiting a long time. She is quite insecure about sex in general. Rather, I look for the cues that signal that she would like it, even though she is not going to ask for it. Then I initiate it.

I remember reading an article somewhere written by a woman. She suggested that women initiate 99% of sex through the subtle cues that they give without even realizing that they are doing it. It may be the man who actually did something, but he did it because he was getting a cue from her that she wanted it. My wife and I definitely work on this model.

There is also one important way in which my hearth fire analogy breaks down. In a sexual relationship, the man is required to keep his own fire hot so that his wife will be attracted to want to come and cozy up to it. He has to ensure that his yang energy is strong (semen retention) and flowing on all levels. She will feel the energy that he radiates and then invite him to direct that wonderful energy at her. His willgness to give freely, and her willigness to be open and receptive are the keys to getting a strong flow going.

Intercourse daily or not?

Just a brief update on our journey. When we first began Karezza we were having intercourse on a daily basis, which was really cool, not too sure but someone said "daily" was how it was supposed to be done and when you are a newbie, you do what you are told to do, especially when you are told to have sex every day. That was not a difficult order to fill, at least not in the beginning. I think it was what we needed at that time as we transitioned from orgasmic sex to non-orgasmic sex. It was kinda like the frequency of intercourse made up for the lack of orgasms. After nine weeks we are finding our needs are different than before and the pressure of having to have sex every day was just too much, for both of us, the schedule was easy to follow though!

Another thing that was happening with daily intercourse was my erections were not like they needed to be, they would come and go too much, which was a bit frustrating. Now I remain firm from start to finish, which is usually for an hour or more, and that has been a real confidence builder for me and my bride. A firm erection makes a lot of positive statements to both husband and wife as opposed to one that is limp and uninterested, which also makes a big statement. It also seems like when I am good and firm the orgasms are a non issue, it was only when I was partially erect that I would find myself approaching orgasm and getting really sensitive, don't know why but it may be a mental thing, who knows? Any other guys out here have that same problem?

So, now we are both fine with sex on an every other day basis but we are not tied down to any particular schedule. We have both agreed that we don't need to let too many days go by between intercourse but when we miss a day there is no longer that feeling of "oh we missed a day, how awful" we just move on knowing we will be together soon. We are sort of in a "no rules" situation which is very liberating. For the moment that is where we are and things are good. I don't get all upset when we miss a day and she doesn't feel under any pressure to have sex every day which is good too. So its all good, thanks for this website Marnia, and all the rest of you here, you are the bomb and so is Karezza!

less firm erections

great update, thanks!

Just wanted to comment on a small point you made. I've had some of my finest and best times of pleasure with less than a full erection or almost none at all. I had a real transcendental experience hanging out in her with a flaccid penis in scissors. If there is something to the whole energy exchange idea, (and I think there is), it may be that real energy transfer is made after a long duration of intercourse, and whether or not the man's penis is erect...maybe better when it's not too erect.

Back to the general theme of your post, every other day seems to work great for us too. Maybe Saturday and Sunday, then every other day LOL until the next weekend...

"Just snuggle" days are awesome, though. 

 

My wife

Would agree with you. She has always said it is more enjoyable for her when I am not so hard but I like being firm as opposed to being flaccid, it is as much mental as physical for me. I love the feeling of an erection and it is even a better feeling now than before, I suppose because of no orgasms. I used to deal with some ED issues and that was no fun, a real confidence destroyer. Maybe as time goes by those feelings of inadequacy will be gone and it will be easier on me being soft during intercourse. Maybe I will be able to enjoy just hanging out as you so eloquently put it, lol.