Barry Long narrates "Making Love"

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MAking Love coverSomeone just sent me this link to a YOUTube video of the late Australian tantra master Barry Long reading a short book I've admired for years.

Making Love: Sexual Love the Divine Way

Personally, I think women have a bit more responsibility here than Long does, but I like that he respects the enormous potential in male leadership.

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I can't recall if Tolle spoke

I can't recall if Tolle spoke of instant gratification. Since instant is impossible, the watcher must just observe the seeker I guess. But what if technology becomes faster than our brain such that consciousness can't keep up? In some ways, we might already be there. Technology as a magician's sleight of hand seems problematic.

Response from a forum member

On the Barry Long video about spiritual sex.

Interesting, but I am sorry to say that, although I am impressed by the shear cleverness of Barry Long’s offering, and there are some interesting ideas well expressed, I will not follow it as the route to paradise ... ultimately it is a pathway to confusion and, possibly, to a version of hell.

 One reason is, I do believe his thinking suffers from the same flaw that infects all New Age Buddhism (NAB); namely that, primarily, we must ‘live in the NOW’ or ‘live in the moment’.    This has been raised to be their most important rule.    Barry Long raises it so high as to actually be God ... (I quote him) “Love, or GOD, is Now”.   It is a simple formula applied to everything and trusted to answer all questions.

    In order to “live in the now” we are exhorted to “detach”*** ourselves from imagining the future and from recalling the past.    We are told that this is the method to avoid making comparisons or judgements.  

      Of course, to not recall the past, particularly the immediate past (including “a minute ago” to quote Barry Long ... or did he say “a second ago”?) is impossible for the normal human brain.  The only people who truly live in the now are those in the later stage of Alzheimer’s .... and for them it is a version of Hell.  

    for the rest of us remembrance of the immediate past and anticipation of the immediate future allows us to appreciate the beauty of a symphony, a poem, or simply some prose ... including understanding of the explanations of Barry Long.

*** ‘Detachment’ is another special word beloved by NAB and is upheld as the way to avoid the devil of emotional attachment.    They even extract the emotion from love and label what is left “compassion”.  They are forced into this position to be consistent with the idea of that they must not be ‘attached’ to possessions, pleasure, pride etc etc and, just as they must not seek pleasure, they must also not avoid pain ... otherwise this attachment / avoidance would cause them to ‘suffer’.   Everything they do, think and say is directed at the avoidance of suffering.   The irony is they are attached to the quest for avoidance of suffering and also attached to the quest for a state of calm transcendence.  

It is their choice to make this their religion; personally I prefer to really enjoy pleasures and to avoid the pain I can avoid and accept the pain I cannot avoid (especially the highs and lows of emotion that are a part of romance, of bonding and of lovemaking) ... it is all part of human life and the life of a normal ‘householder’.     As you know, I believe that the main cause of human suffering is allowing the ego to be in charge.   My book was an attempt to expose this and offer solutions of a very practical nature (and not based on thinking, but upon being) ... so far it has been a failed attempt [or maybe a very limited success ... for one or two readers].  It was a happy discovery that dropping egoic defences also improves / transforms your sex life

I do admire Barry Long for his eloquence and the flow of his prose ... I don’t have that talent ... but I don’t agree with the main thrust of his reasoning ... I can, however, agree with the idea that, in an ideal relationship where both partners are deeply engaged in the process of merging, spontaneity is the best policy ... but very very few people are in the ideal relationship.   Most people (if not everyone) have their hang-ups, their baggage, theirs fears and their egos ... in that case real spontaneity is lost ... so we need some guide or some helpful rules of procedure, and even ritual, to help us past our hang-ups, to drop some baggage, to overcome our fears and to lose our egoic defences. The one-size-fits-all exhortation to live in THE NOW is simply not good enough and to equate THE NOW with ‘LOVE’ or ‘GOD’ is religious obscurantism ... and New Agey nonsense. It introduces a circular logic that “right” love making is being in ‘the now’, and ‘the now’ is ‘love’ (and ‘love’ is not to involve emotional pleasure???)

I am kind of a flexible

I am kind of a flexible thinker I think. When I listen to or read some philosophy or idea or religious dogma I whole heartedly dive into it to kind of give it a test drive as my brain assimilates it. Then a combination of my open mind and my buzzing intellect classifies things on varying scales of useful to me or not for me.. reasonable or complete nonsense.. helpful or hurtful.. etc. You get the idea.

I really don't totally discount the thoughts or passions of others even when they are arrogantly presented as fact.. when they clearly are simply an idea that one or more individuals feel strongly about.

I am also new to much in this world. The name Barry Long means nothing more than any other name. I am not well informed in name dropping or nuances of new age Buddhism or Tantra.

I listened to him read "Sexual Love. Making Love The Divine Way. at the suggestion of Marnia. I thank her for this.

I will say I was able to glean some useful insights from it. The writing and the narration seemed arrogant but that just could be my interpretation. . I really can't say if it was his tone or just the style of writing.

The same caution in my heart arises when a zealot tells me Jesus is the only one who can save my soul... or if Muhammad's words aren't followed to the letter I am a condemned infidel.

I have my own theory that people set faith in stone or overstate lofty ideals so regular humans are guilted into meeting them at least half way.

I am a Tibetan Buddhist. I am not trying to save anyone with my vast knowledge.. that would be impossible on so many levels. What underlies all my actions and beliefs or philisopy is the middle path. Or maybe I should say middle river.

On one bank of the river is rigid nonwaivering faith or belief.. on the opposite bank is chaos and no belief in anything. Down the middle of the river I swim with the flow. I visit both banks ocasionally.. but always seem most comfortable in the middle. I bring things into the middle of my flowing river. .. things I feel are for me.

As for Barry Long. When I heard things like. This is love and that is not love.. it sets up a dualistic way of thinking that simply confuses me more.

I do see what he is saying about reducing "emotion" in sex .. I just don't know if emotion is the right word. I don't know what the right word would be. Because feeling at peace or feeling content or happy are all emotions that going to happen. Especially once on a good path. We are not plants nor do I strive to be one. I would even differ in the opinion of emotions in monkeys.. emotions are there.

Maybe eliminating emotion means eliminating anxiety, fear, expectation, anger, shame. But love is an emotion .. and that is what we are striving for.

If I am ever with a partner again I do feel limiting the negative or anxiety inducing emotions will help me .. but this seems obvious.

One part of his writing I really liked was the comments about erections outside the vagina. My erect penis is always a greedy needy thing when it is outside a vagina. Also I have really seen my erections be a terrible threatening trigger if my wife sees me ready to role when she is not even having any inclination to roll.. so to speak. She definitely views my erection as a threat or weapon. Or at least she did over a year ago when she last saw it. She even told me and our therapist as much. Here I thought she would get aroused by seeing me all ready . . Me all prideful in my splendor.. and she would get angry and literally shoot me down.

I like the assertion that bodies really connect effortlessly and the penis will engorge naturally when love is there. This gives me hope .. erectile disfunction has plagued me in the past.. and likely still will. But as I listen and read about success from relaxing and the vagina will help me grow. Without having to hypersexualize or fantasize or hyperstimulate or stress. This reinforces the relaxed approach in CPA.

I feel I need to say something more about Buddhism and living in the moment so to speak. I don't strive to live in the moment. I again just strive to live the middle path. I do this so I don't obsess and end up stuck on the bank of my river. I just realize the future really hasn't happened.. yes even a second from now. It doesn't mean for me that I don't ever plan or think about what is going to happen next. It means if things don't happen as I planned I don't get upset or cling to the outcome I thought would happen. Therefore I am not living in the future. I plan but don't expect and take it as it comes.

As for living in the past. Yes I do this sometimes. I doubt the validity of anyone who says they don't. All our experiences shape us to a certtin degree. However I don't dwell in the past or regret things that happened as they did. One key factor in past experience though is that I don't allow my past experiences to completely dictate what I do next. I don't cling to per conceived notions that aren't valid. The middle path.. I know if I put my hand in the fire I will be hurt.. fire is definite.. I don't assume every Pitt bull will bite me. Dogs are variable. I can excersise caution but not to the point of paranoia. I smile and talk goo goo to the Pitt bull and see if he wags his tail.. rather than feeling and looking afraid. Can you say forgone conclusion? Living in the past for me doesn't mean forgetting the past it just means I don't get sad or afraid or happy or dwell in it.

Living in the present for me is like I am a old sharp knife. The past as honed and sharpened my edge .. but I am simply a sharpend tool ready to accept a task.. I am not aimlessly stabbing in front of me at a future threat that hasn't manifested.

I am not on a soap box for anybody other than myself here. Just working out who I am. I guess I am responding to Marnia a bit. But she just stimulated a self examination. As a Buddhist I don't cling to self either.

This doesn't mean I don't have a self.. it just means it changes all the time. For me as a Buddhist "no self" means I do not define my self based on my occupation or hobbies or even personality. I really am not even a Buddhist.. that is just a label I don't cling to either. I am mind .. I cannot even define that.

OK so I am getting out there but it makes sense to me.

My whole philosophy of living for now.. as I defined it. And not clinging to labels. Is designed to reduce suffering in me and everyone else.

All of life consists of internal and external suffering. We don't want it. We avoid it if we can. But much of the time we don't know how we got there. It is like Murphy's law or something. But if you look at Murphy's law.. it is because Murphy didn't live in the moment. He planned and expected.. when his preconceived plan based on past experience didn't work as he expected he became angry or dissapointed. Murphy's law is a prime example. The pit bull won't always bite me if I try to pet him. He might sometimes.. but if I ascribe to Murphy's law I will never know any experience.. suffering or pleasure. I will never reach out.

All Buddhists are trying to say about reducing suffering is that they know some ways to do it. Living in the present. Not clinging. Always reduces suffering overall for everybody.. not just themselves. In fact on the Bodhisattva path the primary concern is to reduce suffering for all.

I talk a big game but it is taking me a long time and a lot of "effortless" effort to reduce my neurosis and replace it with some wisdom. I sit. I meditate. I emulate the above sentiments as I can. But I by no means have mastered or even scratched the surface of the philosophy I have embraced. It definitely is reducing my personal suffering and that of my kids and wife. My ego is there but not inflated. My obsessios or jealousy or anger and yes even desires have reduced dramatically.

Much of this is also from reading Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. I am a medical professional with a very scientific mind.. believe it or not.

Much of what was presented in CPA was logical and appealed to both my fact based as well as anecdotal mind. Much as Buddhism has for me. CPA and Buddhism both have helped my with my pleasure addiction. Recognizing the addiction for what it is and managing it day to day.

Thanks for sharing your musings

I'm almost glad you have this extra leisure in your life so we get the benefit of your insights. Smile

I'm not sure what I am, but one of the books I most resonate with is the Hua Hu Ching. Let me know if you want to read it. It's short...and Daoist. I think of the Dao as that river you're describing, except for all of life, not just for rigidity vs. chaos.

I'm glad Cupid struck a chord. It's good to think big sometimes. Think you could get the medical profession to dive into a more open-minded view of sex?? Why Stop Orgasm Research at Climax?

Yes the extra time is

Yes the extra time is something I have never had .. ever . Until the last year. It is like I always stayed so busy with school or my profession or the house or wife so I didn't have to feel or face who I really was. I always just kept busy

I have grown in so many ways the past year.. spiritually and emotionally. I am actually am developing the tools to be at ease sometimes.

As for helping the medical field develop an open mind regarding sex.. My colleagues as well as myself deal primarily with those on an estrus cycle rather than a menstral cycle. Our minds are pretty open but our patients are extremely hormonal. :)

I will check out the. Hua Hu Ching.

Thank you

Ha ha!

Animals must be a welcome change from humans in some respects. I'll email the Hua Hu Ching to you. You might like it.

Marnia, I worked in the

Marnia, I worked in the medical device field for 17 years. I saw, firsthand, how much of research is funded.

Medical research, from my perch, was not about 'discovering truth' and helping people. It was more about burnishing the reputation of the lead, or anchor, author (and the budding underlings) on the paper and getting him or her to present the 'research' findings in the most powerful venue possible. Oh, and the 'research' was guided by in-house company professionals -- R&D and clinical affairs folks -- who were developing products to sell; they were not looking to 'cure or prevent heart disease', they were looking to treat heart disease with a company-specific tool/device.

To me, it appears that the medical establishment is wholly controlled from the top, as is the education, military, legal, religious, media, etc. establishments.

Antony Sutton, a former researcher at Stanford's Hoover Institute, did a fine job laying out some of the fingers of centralized control of the full range of fields here in America; in particular, see pages 34 and 78 of the PDF:
http://www.crowhealingnetwork.net/pdf/Antony%20Sutton%20-%20Americas%20S...

I think grass-root efforts -- i.e., going around Establishment medicine and religion, via blogs, more TEDx talks, your book, word of mouth -- is how Karezza is going to spread, given the vise-grip that The Cabal has on the top-levels of medicine, religion, and media today.

M.D. and Ph.D. researchers have grants and jobs to protect, and their department heads and the public and private funding agencies keep close tabs on their activities, it seems to me.

I'm not pessimistic; I'm just realistic, given my activist experience in chemtrails, Ron Paul's presidential campaign, UFO disclosure, etc.

I had not seen that. Thanks,

I had not seen that. Thanks, I enjoyed it. Dr. Goldacre did a great job reviewing the evidence for publication bias.

Yep, 'publication bias' is real and it is dangerous. It is clear to me that the big organs -- companies and their protecting governments and regulatory bodies -- are not about pursuing truth.

In my opinion, the revolving door between regulatory and research bodies and companies certainly helps keep 'publication bias' in place:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2009/the-revolving-door-continues-between-...
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/27/nabel-trad...
http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2010/12/former-nih-director-spins-trhough....

Heck, everything big is controlled. This clip of local control of the media is hilarious, but, upon reflection, really disturbing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM8L7bdwVaA