It´s so good to be in this community

Submitted by strawberry field on
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I was rereading my old Blog entries and found many really good advices. I could see my boyfriend and I were on a good way, until I gave up staying on that way, because there were so many up´s and down´s. It´s not easy to look at those up´s and down´s from a wider range of view, especially for me. It´s hard for me to stay on a certain way and not be discouraged by the down´s...just GO STRAIGHT forward is nothing I am good at. This may be the reason for some of my compulsions - I just don´t know how to stay on the way differently, I have to bite on to something. This makes it hard to avoid being forceful in trying to convince him about karezza and often I don´t know if I should insist on something or not because I don´t know if it was helpful staying on the way or if it was forceful and therefore harmful to staying on the way.

By posting in this community I do have a treasure chest and when I forget what is precious I can take a look at it and be reminded. Smile
And I have to be reminded very often! I-m so happy

I think I gave in to go back to old habits, when I should have insisted on doing it slowly at least at the beginning of intercourse. I guess I felt pressured and gave in to fulfill his expectations because I am not good in saying "no". Next time I will insist on doing it slowly and therefore I will ask him if he could try to "explore" my body first....this should put his mind into presence and this is the place he should be at when having sex.^^

Though I decided to not mention the subject of karezza to him for a while, this doesn´t mean I have to give up the exercise. If he doesn´t get the (totally plausible) idea of karezza by words he has to learn it through experience. This was the first way and it worked better than explaining, though we had our up´s and down´s as well. I just have to stay clear and tell him I want it slowly at least at the beginning...and stay with it! If he leaves me because of too boring sex (this is what I am afraid of when asking him to slow down) he isn´t the right one anyway! I-m so happy

Thanks for giving me a room for sharing my thoughts. Hope some may find help in it as well as I am finding in other´s descriptions. Smile

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I've been doing Karezza for awhile now

and my wife does not.

It's fine!

I don't even wish her to do it. I want her only to be happy. If she's happy I'm happy doing things this way.

I have no interest in the "old way" of having sex.

Life is so much finer, so much richer than it ever was. 

I doubt your man will leave because it's "too boring." You can keep it interesting for him by doing what he wants to a point. And you don't have to have orgasms. That's what I do now. I please my wife and make myself very happy. I don't try to push her into anything, in the least.

And yes -- I owe more to this community than I can ever repay.

Glad you are here!

That's really cool

Does your wife not experience any negative side effects from orgasm? Or has she not made the connection? Did she do any experiments?

Since her hysterectomy, my wife has really started to enjoy sex a lot more. Karezza has helped a great deal, but she still has [accidental] orgasms, and enjoys them. But I haven't had to try and convince her to make love Karezza-style; she has made the connection for herself between orgasm and mood swings, low energy, etc. Also, we both like the increased sensitivity, longer duration of lovemaking and also noticed the sudden departure of the amazing feelings pretty much as soon as orgasm happens. Neither of us likes to "lose that lovin' feeling"...

I'm pretty sure if we could have our cake and eat it too, that's what we'd be doing.

sender wrote:

[quote=sender]But I haven't had to try and convince her to make love Karezza-style; she has made the connection for herself between orgasm and mood swings, low energy, etc.
[/quote]

What do you mean with "for herself"...did she figure it out without reading anything about after-effects of orgasm and all this stuff or did you give her some texts and she found them convincing without any further explanations? If the second guess is right, what texts did you give her?

[quote]Also, we both like the increased sensitivity, longer duration of lovemaking and also noticed the sudden departure of the amazing feelings pretty much as soon as orgasm happens. Neither of us likes to "lose that lovin' feeling"...[/quote]

I think this loss of lovin´ feeling should be obvious virtually...but my boyfriend doesn´t seem to notice the changes after intercourse. Do you have an idea how to make it obvious?

You must be happy to have such an open-minded wife. Smile

We've done some reading together

The male initiative (6 initiatives) posted elsewhere on this forum; that one helped a lot. What helped the most were the parts that dealt with men's misconceptions about relationships with women; i.e. that women are not playthings that we "own" and who are obligated to satisfy our every sexual urge. Most guys think some version of that deep down, and until they realize it, it's hard to change. We're reading Marnia's book together too.

We were lucky to have a really good run at the beginning. It was amazing for us both. Now we know where we want to be, even when we "fuck up". But when we do find ourselves going over the edge, that's helpful too because we can clearly see the difference in how we feel, and neither one of us likes it (except in that moment of course ;-)). Experimentation is the key. How can he know which way he likes best until he's tried more than way?

I think it's much easier when the guy is the one "selling the idea" to his woman. Women seem to understand immediately why you would want to go slower. Guys tend to take it as criticism if the idea comes from the woman; i.e. some variant of "you're a bad lover", which no guy wants to hear.

Yes, I consider myself very lucky. My wife has done a lot of work on herself (spiritual, emotional, etc), so she found it pretty easy to notice that she all of a sudden stopped feeling (and acting) bitchy. For her, to feel relaxed and happy all the time was a new sensation, so she noticed it right away. Also, men in general find it much more difficult to identify and name their feelings, which makes it more difficult for them to observe themselves. I have done a LOT of work on that. I've been meeting regularly for 15 years with a group of guys I met through doing this training: http://mankindproject.org/. That has been very transformative, and I highly recommend it to any man. But, like most things, the people who go tend to already want to transform, so it's hard to convince someone to do it if they don't already want to.

Maybe in your situation, a compromise will be the best way to kick things off. Tell him he can have things his way 1/2 the time. The other half, you get them your way. It should be pretty easy to convince him to do this because if he won't, he'll feel like an unreasonable jackass, and no guy wants to feel like that. That's actually a negotiating skill - to highlight the fundamental unreasonableness of the opposing side if they are unwilling to compromise; it's why negotiating works in the first place. You don't need to justify asking for what you want 1/2 the time since at present he's not justifying why he should get what he wants 100% of the time...just saying.

If you do it this way, you can begin to introduce him to the idea of loving touch vs. needy touch through experience instead of words. I'd also recommend reading Marnia's book together, a few pages nightly. It's really excellent. I bet he would like it.

I can only give a short answer right now

because I am at his place and I don´t have much time to spend on the Internet.

[quote=sender]
If you do it this way, you can begin to introduce him to the idea of loving touch vs. needy touch through experience instead of words. [/quote]

Yesterday he began to touch me in a needy way until I said "I am not your sex-object!". First he was offended but later on he showed his interest and asked if he shouldn´t touch me anymore. Of course I said no and explained to him the difference between loving and needy touch and what I didn´t like about the needy touch. He seemed to understand which was also shown in the following love-session...I didn´t have to explain anything. It simply was my own inner attitude and his understanding about different touches that changed the whole setting. It was something like karezza but with orgasm...maybe call it slow sex. Maybe I can explain my inner attitude more differentiated later on, I think it could be helpful to understand the whole karezza/love/tantra thing.

I would like to discuss if it was easier to convince a woman or a man...but for now I have to stop here.
Sounds great what you and your wife had worked out (spiritual, emotional) and it´s great both parts did it. :)

i believe it's easier if the woman comes up with this first

But either way it isn't an easy path. The mistake both men and women make is one I made. Trying to pressure my partner. That really doesn't work.

If your partner is open to it, fine, read the book together. That's fantastic. My partner wasn't/isn't open to it, and it's fine with me because I realize that I can do my thing and we can have a closer connection than ever before in our relationship, and she doesn't have to go there with me in that way. This really took a long time for me to absorb. It still does sometimes even now.