questions about intensity

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Submitted by SensualFreja on
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I am trying to wrap my head around the hangover issue, and will admit that in life I am a dopamine chaser.

What I have been teaching as an erotic practice to my clients is the non-negotiable activation of the parasympathetic nervous system via bonding behaviours and intentional trance state (means extremely relaxed physically and mentally) and being 100% present in the body, then attention and awareness of the sensation. This in itself is very bonding in my opinion.

Where I believe there is conflict is that in that wonderful state is where much intensity can be experienced, for example I feel far more extreme pleasure in that state where there is not very much physical activity and no efforting than I ever did when I used to engage in wild crazy breeding sex. I happen to be extremely physically responsive and very easily orgasmic, so our play focuses more on preventing me from orgasming so that I can feel higher degrees of pleasure than if I were simply to release the arousal relatively quickly. My partner naturally does not ejaculate often so that is not an issue.

I also move energy away from my clitoris and up into my body, actually I prefer internal and breast stimulation to clitoral anyway.

My question is are the highs of pleasure in these circumstances damaging from a Karezza perspective? Taking any orgasm out of it, is the intensity (which admittedly we both love) itself detrimental? Is it just the dopamine train that has me clinging to the intense sensation and arousal? Again, this is all done from essentially a relaxed trance state where we have cuddled, relaxed, let go and began from there.

Love to hear perspectives!

Do You or Partner Experience...

...any clear-cut hangover symptoms? I would guess that you do not. If you do not, why worry?

I am guilty of the 'frowned upon' practice of 'edging.' I do not detect any clear-cut hangover symptoms from 'successful edging' (i.e., pushing things but avoiding ejaculating or orgasm). So, I continue to edge, or something approaching that.

During intercourse, we humans have no meter of our real-time neurohormonal levels. During intercourse, we only have an overt sign: am I avoiding ejaculation and orgasm? After intercourse, we only have subtle signs that may show over days and weeks: do I feel withdrawn, weak, irritable, moody, etc.?

What you describe -- bonding behaviors, fully relaxed physically and mentally, 100% present in the body, attention and awareness of the sensation -- sounds ideal and awesome.

Me, a novice (three years at Karezza), I judge things based on how I feel (my wife does not like to talk about sex or Karezza or its effects) and the state of our relationship. All is well for us, so I do not have strong concerns. The practice you describe sounds wonderful, and if you and your partner detect no fallout, I would not worry.

Having said that, I have two nagging concerns about my practice of edging:
(1) I enjoy sex and think about it often. My wife thinks I am oversexed. It is not stressful for her, as I do not paw and grope her. But, she would prefer sex less often (two to three times per week). I attribute our difference of opinion to 'stereotypical' male and female preferences. But, maybe I think about sex often due to my edging.
(2) My meditation is not as productive as I would like it to be; I can only keep my mind blank for tens of seconds, not minutes. Maybe such is due to my 'edging.'

I could stop my practice of edging (really, it is nice alternation between stillness and directed activity). But, while it appears that Karezza has cured me of my lifelong neediness, I try to get as much pleasure into my timed, 'wife-only-allows 20 minutes' near-daily session as I can. Maybe if I could truly relax for a protracted period of time and get to fully savor things during intercourse, I would not need to edge.

You seem perceptive and conscientious. I look forward to reading of your integration of feedback from folks!

Truly, as John suggested, it's your laboratory

The only way to figure out if you like something better than something else is to try it for an extended period and compare.

Same with the effects of "edging." If you want to find out if it's creating unnecessary dissatisfaction/monkey-mind in you, give it up for a few weeks and see if you and your wife can then find a rhythm that's agreeable and centering for you both. Worst case, you come back to what you do now, right?

I don't know if it's edging or not @john

But I do the same thing. 

And interestingly, @sensualfreja (welcome here, thanks for your wonderful post), I do the same thing you describe, bringing the feelings from my genitals up into my whole body.

It's like a 30 minute orgasm, but better. My wife doesn't like to have sex for a long time as she doesn't have the feelings I do, so 20 or 30 minutes is what she likes. Interesting, huh John? LOL.

Anyway, I have noted in another post --> I find my perceptions of my wife change quite a lot. They go from 100X love to 90X love. And then to 120X love. I suppose it has to do with the intense sexual experience that I feel. I suppose it is kind of edgy. But I love it.

I can go for long periods now without coming, weeks and weeks, months even. If I'm away from her for a trip, when I get back it's difficult. But after that, back on the horse. It is just SO amazing without orgasms, this whole body orgasmic feeling, the whole thing is so wonderful, that I never intend to alter it or change it. 


Suspicion of Conspiracy

" 20 or 30 minutes is what she likes. Interesting, huh John? LOL..."

If your wife suggests use of a timer -- as my wife 'requests' with me -- I will strongly suspect surreptitious communications between our wives, to keep us in line, ha, ha.

no timer, LOL

but she has to get up to go somewhere, etc.

It's fine though.

I'm having more sex than I ever did in my whole life. And the pleasure and connection is 100 times better than ever.

I have true abundance now for the first time ever.

I'm grateful. Thanks to this forum and Marnia, Gary and you all.

I have to be okay that each of us experiences a different reality, and hers is her business and mine is my business.

Byron Katie's blog post comes to mind:


Much of our stress comes from mentally living out of our own business. When I think, "You need to get a job, I want you to be happy, you should be on time, you need to take better care of yourself," I am in your business. When I’m worried about earthquakes, floods, war, or when I will die, I am in God’s business. If I am mentally in your business or in God’s business, the effect is separation.

I noticed this early in 1986. When I mentally went into my mother’s business, for example, with a thought like "My mother should understand me," I immediately experienced a feeling of loneliness. And I realized that every time in my life that I had felt hurt or lonely, I had been in someone else’s business.

If you are living your life and I am mentally living your life, who is here living mine? We’re both over there. Being mentally in your business keeps me from being present in my own. I am separate from myself, wondering why my life doesn’t work.To think that I know what’s best for anyone else is to be out of my business. Even in the name of love, it is pure arrogance, and the result is tension, anxiety, and fear. Do I know what’s right for me? That is my only business. Let me work with that before I try to solve your problems for you. If you understand the three kinds of business enough to stay in your own business, it could free your life in a way that you can’t even imagine.

The next time you’re feeling stress or discomfort, ask yourself whose business you’re in mentally, and you may burst out laughing! That question can bring you back to yourself. And you may come to see that you’ve never really been present, that you’ve been mentally living in other people’s business all your life. Just to notice that you’re in someone else’s business can bring you back to your own wonderful self. And if you practice it for a while, you may come to see that you don’t have any business either and that your life runs perfectly well on its own.



"Is it just the dopamine train that has me clinging to the intense sensation and arousal?"
I agree with Marnia; check it out for yourself. How do you feel. Try something else. Ask again, how do you feel? What I have embraced about karezza is to focus on the love connection and not strive for an orgasm. I don't know that there is a karezza doctrine/perspective beyond that.
"a relaxed trance state where we have cuddled, relaxed, let go and began from there." I can do that, relaxed and totally stoned. Then there is the problem that Izzy feels disconnected and alone. That's a communication problem that can be dealt by simply asking her how she feels. It's really bad when I assume she's feeling that way without checking in with her.