Slip ups, accidents, relapses, chasers

Submitted by davidphd1866 on
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May I humbly request that Marnia and Gary help with some definitions?

What's a slip up?
What's an "accident"?
What's a relapse?
What's a chaser?

It seems these meanings overlap and cause some consternation among the group. If Gary, for example, accidentally ejaculates is that a relapse for him? A slip up? An accident? etc.

I feel that it may help that we put into perspective the various forms of "slip ups" as we continue on our journey.




I think of "relapse" in connection with an addiction, but I often use "slip" too. "Chaser" refers to intense desire for more sex or masturbation, and seems to be tied to neurochemical ripples.

The first two words depend on your goals. For example, thanks to our karezza practice neither of us choose to orgasm on purpose these days, so if we do, it's an accident...and usually a cause for some humor. Smile

Thank you Marnia. So it's

Thank you Marnia. So it's possible that many of us who are routinely "making it" to a month or so, might not be so much relapsing as having accidents.

Or am I kidding myself? Is once a month not long enough for a true reboot?


Hard to say

But I should think that a lot of month-long reboots could probably lead to the same destination as one long one.

If you're not struggling with addiction, then there's no such thing as a "relapse." Karezza itself is about *balance* not perfection. Don't let yourself be made to feel bad.

Thanks Marnia, Different

Thanks Marnia,

Different question (and will repost with different topic if worthy):

Once addiction and balance has been attained, what is a "safe" interval for ejaculating? This is a different question than "how often SHOULD one ejaculate" (which was already addressed) And by "safe", I mean a long enough interval to avoid the risk of a true relapse.....

Suppose an ex alcoholic only had one drink every three months.....etc...




It depends, in part, on how long the sensitized pathways in your brain stay lit up. That can be years, depending upon the brain in question. Smile

Just experiment for yourself. You'll figure things out. We never "try" for orgasm, and just accept when it happens anyway.

Do you find that there is

Do you find that there is learning when orgasm happens? I can't tell to what extent the brain finds the learning or if the brain actually initiates the learning with the orgasm. In theory if this is a powerful reward and the learning important, it would be a good way to make us take notice and remember. I'm still inclined towards a theory that orgasm has a useful non-reproductive purpose in limited non-pleasure seeking applications. I usually point to survival-level pain management and/or will to survive as a reminder of human connection. Learning could be another one. Someone must have looked at this in animals. Humans may differ in these higher uses. After all animals don't have porn. Coming of sexual maturity is a form of learning that occurs across species.

Good comments. I am

Good comments.

I am guessing that if you still want the "chaser", then it's too frequent.

I wish there was a way to condition the body to "forget" how to eliminate accidents.


I got a quick question.

I got a quick question. Touching, connection being around someone you like or love etc. generates an erection or arousal. This is what is suppose to happen, correct? And that's the healthy default view correct? So if I'm getting an erection while looking at a photo or a video, I'm basically teaching my brain that those are the cues I need to see to generate an erection, correct? That is the wrong way. Because I'm tuning the emotional connection out, which I should want to recieve from a female which gives off positive chemicals for each the both of us. Whereas being by myself and learning to get aroused off pictures alone, teaches me that this is the best view because I will always see something new at the turn of a page or click of a picture or video which generates an addiction and makes me not as social if I was seeking an emotional connection.

Is this correct or am I just rambling. It's something that has been on my mind for awhile.

What is death-grip? I'm not

What is death-grip? I'm not familiar with that term. I'm learning so bare with me.

Also you did answer my question. Thanks. Yes, I do get erections at 2D images. Very so so with sensual touch because I am kinda anti social but working to change that. I believe part of the anti social came from constant PMO. After not PMO for a month some weeks. I feel better and social than before. And there are a few woman on my job that hug me constantly whenever they see me.

I love those hugs. It's not like I'm trying to get something from them but they do feel exceptionally awesome.

Haha Marnia! I honestly

Haha Marnia!

I honestly didn't know what 'death grip' meant. When I started masturbating I didn't start out using my hand. I would lay on my belly while my penis was erected and I would rub back and forth on either the mattress of my bed or on the carpet of my floor. I guess that generated friction between the floor/mattress and my penis. It's odd thinking back on it but that would be my formula I would use with I would PMO.

From the start that's the same formula I would use until I found out about this site I stopped. I always found using my hand not stimulating. Maybe because it wasn't something I started off using. I guess another thing because I never had sexual intercourse or oral sex before (still a virgin).

By the way thank for that link. It really has helped me with my further research.

it's called masturbating

it's called masturbating prone. (

Traumatic Masturbatory Syndrome (TMS) is the habit some males have of masturbating in a face-down (prone) position. Some TMS practitioners rub their penises against the mattress, pillow, or other bedding, or the floor. Some TMS practitioners lie on their stomachs and thrust into their hands.

Masturbating face down puts excessive pressure on the penis, and especially on the base of the penis. These sensations are not easily replicated in conventional masturbation or in sexual intercourse. This can make TMS practitioners unable to have normal sexual relations. A survey conducted for this web site revealed that males who masturbate conventionally have sex 6.6 times more often than TMS practitioners.

Actually it's very dangerous and can have long lasting, chronic side effects. (ED, delayed orgasm, physical damage) I also used to masturbate prone, I discovered it when I began to masturbate and never used my hands until I stopped PMO.

People masturbate prone because it generates such a pressure on the penis that the stimulus is way higher, thus bigger dopamine high. It felt so good like nothing else in life I ever experienced, even drug-like.

After 5 years of doing so I could not masturbate with my hands. It simply wasn't possible. I stood in the shower and giving up after 10 minutes. I was depressed about it but never give it a second thought, had no clue was it was about.

More than 90 percent of males learn to masturbate through self-discovery. Males who practice TMS unfortunately self-discovered an unconventional method. Males who learn to masturbate from other people invariably learn to do it the conventional way. (Most males who discover it for themselves also discover the conventional way.)

Actually I think it's more complex. Masturbating prone is more rewarding, so depressed people with an already low-reward life can be tempted to try masturbating prone. But I don't know for sure...

However, I also self-discovered the wrong way, so I knew nothing else. But when I realized most people masturbate with their hands, I didn't like it because it wasn't rewarding and I could only fantasize if I lied in my bed face down.

After 4-5 months without excessive masturbation I can proudly announce I regained my ability to masturbate with my hands, gently and even without fantasizing and have a good, intensive orgasm. :) Only a few weeks into it made a huge difference.

phoenix451, Thanks! I highly


Thanks! I highly appreciate the response and the link and even the information for that disorder I had. It's so weird thinking back. That's all I could do is masturbate in the prone position. Like it says in the article it was the pressure that was being applied to the penis that was very stimulating. Sort of like the death grip from masturbating. Which you do not get during sexual intercourse.

During my masturbating months of last year. I did try it PMO with my hands. I sat there on the ground. Waited for my penis to erect by watching porn of course and then tried it with my hand. And I did orgasm. I did that three different days but quickly went back to the 'prone' position. Then found this site last November and been free since.

Moral to the story it should be all about touch/connection with a live human being. Erection should come from touch. If I train my brain to get off or get excited by touch. It doesn't necessarily have to be just the penis but the whole body, kissing, holding, cuddling. I will be normal. The way I was suppose to be. It saddens me I wasn't able to experience a relationship around my teen years. My Mother was a very strict, religious woman who didn't want us to be hurt or get someone pregnant at a young age. Something she did when she was 20. Which she had me!

Anyway I just tried this just now:

"After 4-5 months without excessive masturbation I can proudly announce I regained my ability to masturbate with my hands, gently and even without fantasizing and have a good, intensive orgasm. Only a few weeks into it made a huge difference."

I wanted to see where I stand at as far as touch is concerned and I noticed my body picked up on the touching aspect quickly. I was not fantasizing, I was not looking at anything stimulating. Just using my hands and going over my body like how a female would do to me. Wonderful experience to test to see if your body is ready for the touching aspect now. It's funny because I'm not even wanting to orgasm or reach it at all. I feel like if it happens it happens. But with porn. I felt like I was orgasm was my goal. Touching feels so much more soothing. I can't explain it.

I have the strongest desire right now to cuddle with a lady. Being its day 47 without any P&M or self caused orgasms (I have had wet dreams however). It's like my body is pushing me to talk/cuddle with a woman so bad. But it seems like I tease my brain with hugs from various ladies on my job. It certainly wants me to go find a girl. But I haven't experienced the whole cuddling scenario before. I want to though......

I know this is off topic but I saw this girl who I find attractive. She is very social and outgoing. Beautiful. She is relaxed around me and I am too with her. When we are talking I noticed I can gaze into her eyes confidently without any problems. Before I couldn't do that to any girl during my PMO days. I also noticed her pupils were dilated. I mean big. This was under light too. I heard that dilated pupils are a sure sign that someone finds you interesting or attractive. Is this true? Because if so I'm going to turn up my flirty ways. Because I feel more confident than ever right now.

nice progress! You are

nice progress! You are experiencing the same things I do. Don't hesitate, if you feel she may find you attractive it's probably true. I noticed girls usually behave in a certain way if they like you, it's somehow really apparent. You just have to jump over your shadow and take the first step.