Submitted by Opy299 on
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I think celibatepassions.com might be good! I think a lot of the people on there would be open to the reuniting.info.... and it is 100 % free.

"Cuddling and karezza" dating group?

I've noticed three or four new single guys show up on the Reuniting blog recently, mentioning an interest in finding partners who would be interested in non-orgasmic lovemaking. There has also been some mention of wanting to get the word out about non-orgasmic lovemaking, raise people's awareness, etc.

The celibatepassions.com web site might be what you are looking for.

Here are the "Interest groups" (and number of members in each group) within that web site:

# Asexual (340)
# Involuntary Celibacy (125)
# Medical Celibacy (73)
# Religious Celibacy (230)
# Voluntary Celibacy (597)
# Abstinence Pledge (151)
# Celibate Until Marriage (357)
# Life-long Celibate (70)
# Virgin Until Marriage (171)
# Seeking Friends (412)
# Seeking Friends Only (137)
# Seeking Non-Sexual Marriage (225)
# Seeking Non-Sexual Relationship (501)
# Seeking Platonic Relationship (362)

Who knows why people choose to be celibate and yet sign up on a dating web site for celibates? There are blogs on the web site where someone with an interest could ask, or one could peruse the members' personal descriptions and get an idea. I suspect a lot of those people would be open to cuddling and other bonding behaviors, and at least some of them might consider karezza as well.

At http://celibatepassions.com/defun/member_groups.html you can "suggest a new group". I suggest that someone suggest a "Cuddling and karezza" group.

Not that the celibatepassions.com site is touchy about people posting links to other sites. Before anyone links to Reuniting.info, it would be a good idea to contact the celibatepassions.com admins and explain that Reuniting.info is not a competing site; certainly it's not a dating site.

If celibatepassions.com is unsuitable for some reason, there are some similar-sounding web sites listed at http://www.lovegarden.co.uk/link_categories/link_Celibate%20Dating,%20Pl...

OK, I wrote to them

I'll let you know if they respond. Here's what I said,


I run a website called www.reuniting.info, which helps people understand how sex can cause emotional separation between partners, and why they might want to try an unfamiliar approach to lovemaking.

The site is for people interested in learning about and practicing sex without orgasm, such as Karezza.

Visitors to our site would like to find partners who might be interested in exploring this unfamiliar approach to sex. One of them asked if I would contact you to see if you would permit another group, "Cuddling and Karezza" or something along those lines. Although Karezza permits intercourse, its focus is generous, non-goal-oriented affection. It calls for a mindset that is similar to that of celibacy in some ways, and various ancient traditions recognized both celibacy and this approach as variations on a spiritual path.

Our site is not a singles site, so we would rather refer them to yours, if possible.

I'm not sure this would fit into your vision, but I agreed to check with you.


Thanks for your message.

To be honest with you, we're not sure what Celibate Passions members would think of your site.

You are welcome to create a free account, and create a thread within the forum asking for feedback on this concept.

Our guess is that Celibate Passions would not be a good fit, because being celibate does not mean not having orgasms with someone...it means not having sex.

Rather than second guess our members though, we will allow you to describe this to them, and see what type of feedback they give.

If there is interest, we may be open to adding a link to your site within ours.

Customer Service

Does anyone feel like starting such a thread at Celibate Passions? It's awkward for me because it's a singles site, and to register, I have to answer all kinds of questions that make it sound like I'm looking for companions, which I'm not.

In short, this task should be done by someone who IS looking. Any volunteers want to give it a go now that we have permission?

Good Idea

Maybe CuriousFellow can get some traffic our way. However, I think we might be able to do more with what we've got. How many lonely hearts do we have here already? It's hard to tell. You can click on a member's ID in a thread and get a little info, but there doesn't seem to be a master list of members or any systematic indication of who's looking for a lover. I myself posted a link to my OKCupid ad on my profile here. Hope that's ok. Maybe you could set up something to put a heart icon or something by any member's name who is looking.

Spread All over the Globe

The fact that non-orgasmics are so thinly spread out over the globe is exactly why they need a website like this to make connections. Orgasmics may find it a bother to date someone 100 miles away because they are so ubiquitous they might as well go for the one down the street. I met my last girlfriend online and flew several thousand miles to meet her and she wound up being an orgasm enthusiast. For a non-orgasmic woman that I was attracted to in other ways as well, I'd fly anywhere. But I get the feeling that you maybe have only one or two single females here, huh? Yeah, the other approach is also possible...grab the girl down the street and make her read your book.

Awesome! Way to go!

Marnia, for writing a nice, succinct and persuasive email,
and Celibate Passions Customer Service for being honest, open-minded and agreeable.

Some single guys (or gals) should sign up at Celibate Passions and say what they are looking for, and see how much interest there is. I don't want to sign up because I'm not looking right now.

There are about 800+ Reuniting members, but maybe 50 have posted in the last 6 months. I don't think Reuniting should try to be a matchmaking service. The dating sites are better equipped and have more expertise in that area.

CF well knows

my limitations as a webmaster. Smile I was impressed with Celibate Passions when I visited the site. They're set up to help people find each other in very specific areas. It might be worth a try.

We have women "lurkers," but most women are a bit shy about posting for some reason. If any women have ideas of other sites, perhaps for single women, that might welcome connecting with anonymous male pen pals as a start, I'm open to contacting their administrators. It would be great to have more women here.

Meeting women

[quote=Marnia]We have women "lurkers," but most women are a bit shy about posting for some reason. If any women have ideas of other sites, perhaps for single women, that might welcome connecting with anonymous male pen pals as a start, I'm open to contacting their administrators. It would be great to have more women here. [/quote]


I find this whole thread very interesting. I'm getting the impression that there are lots of men here and very few women. Certainly those of us who want to explore this approach to intimacy need to find ways to attract a partner if we don't have one already. That can be very challenging.

A female friend of mine recently wrote this to me about her fear of communicating openly about sexuality:

> I understand why women would be more reluctant to share
> their sexual
> experiences. I am probably not the only one thinking that
> as soon as sex
> is mentioned men feel aroused and therefore talking about
> traumatic
> events in a group can be quiet scary (at least it is for
> me) and
> complete trust is necessary, but complete trust takes
> time

So maybe women need a place to write about healing and men need to start sharing about their experiences of healing the roots of the "Battle of the sexes" within themselves. Marnia's approach certainly has a great deal of merit in my mind but maybe women are leery about communicating about sexual healing out of the fear of being hurt again. Sexual abuse of women is quite common and takes many forms. Maybe some see the focus on a sexual technique as being threatening.

Any thoughts?


Karezza doesn't necessarily

Karezza doesn't necessarily mean sex occurs, does it? Maybe for celibatepassions.com, the emphasis should be on the non-sexual intimate touch aspect? Wow, think about it... all these people, celibate for some reason... suddenly having valley orgasms! Of all people, they might very well have the most motivation to try.

EDIT: I'll sign up there when I get a chance. Kinda tired the past few days... I think my system is going through changes, re-routing circuitry and all that now that I've committed to this process. Headaches too. Is that part of it?

EDIT #2: Oh, and about the webmaster stuff... I'm pretty good with PHP, which is what I believe Drupal is written in. I could probably do some projects like what's described in this thread. It'll just have to be once in awhile, on my own time until my energy improves.

That's a good idea

If celibate people could discover experiences like Thriving's, they' see the point of teaming up.

Yes, headaches are not unusual: http://www.reuniting.info/node/1725#comment-5425

Thanks for volunteering. We promise not to overtax you, but a site member, Amari, is trying to help out with some changes (which are not going as planned so far Wink ). She may ask you for a pointer or two as she learns her way around. Feel free to decline.

An asexual woman's blog

I found this quite interesting and informative: http://thereisnocloset.blogspot.com/

...although I didn't find a clear answer to my main question, which is, could asexuals and Reuniting people be compatible?

celibatepassions.com has already linked back to Reuniting.info (to this thread, actually). Yay! Some of their other links might be interesting as well.

I actually admire the asexuals

for having the courage to say they see the benefit in bonding behaviors, even if they don't feel fired up to "do it" like the rest of us. Who knows? Could be a better starting point...and could sometimes even lead to a deeply satisfying sexual life with a partner (not that that should be their goal). It does seem like the approach suggested in the Exchanges *might* be more appealing to them than the standard script of grope-and-leap-into-bed.

After all the material I read on bonding behaviors, I'm also wondering if too little touching and bonding as an infant leaves people kind of "clueless" about conventional foreplay and feelings of attraction. I have no idea. I'm just musing out loud because experiments about raising monkeys have shown such things.

Demographics of celibatepassions.com members

There are currently 3270 members of celibatepassions.com. I looked at the profiles of the 400 members who had supplied pictures and had logged in most recently (that's the order in which they are listed). These are very rough estimates about the demographics of those 400 members; I didn't actually do any counting.

There were roughly equal numbers of men and women.

95% were "man looking for woman" or "woman looking for man". Of the remainder, there was a mix of "man looking for man", "man looking for either", "woman looking for woman" and "woman looking for either".

Most members were in the age range of 19 to 59 although there were a few over 60.

95% were in the US. Most of the rest were in Canada, England or Australia. There were a very few in India, Russia, Sweden, and other places.

A surprisingly large fraction of the members were... well... large, showing their weight as more than 200 pounds. Maybe that's part of why their profiles stay around on the dating site? (I don't consider obesity to be ugly or a "dealbreaker", necessarily, but I would have a couple concerns about considering such people for potential mates. One is that I believe overweight people are at higher risk for health problems. The other is that if a 200 pound woman were to lie on top of me, I would be crushed and unable to breathe under the weight.)

70% didn't give any hint of their reason for celibacy in their self-descriptive essay. 15% didn't want to have sex before marriage (many of them for religious reasons, others because they considered it important to get to know people first without sex entering the picture) but didn't say anything about after marriage. 15% described themselves as asexuals or having little or no sex drive. A few mentioned medical conditions, such as cervical cancer, HIV, born without a penis, or fibromyalgia.

I tried to get a sense for whether those in the asexual / low sex drive group would be interested in karezza, but it was not clear from the essays. Many (more than half, probably) mentioned enjoying cuddling, kissing and other bonding behaviors, but were "not interested in" or "don't enjoy" intercourse. However, those people had probably not considered the much gentler form of intercourse, namely karezza.

The member profiles contained answers to a standard set of questions, such as education level, occupation, sexual orientation, etc., both for the members themselves, and what the members were looking for in a partner. However, many members seem to have answered those questions carelessly, so I don't consider the answers to be accurate. For example, some people listed themselves under most or all categories, including "Voluntary Celibate" and "Involuntary Celibate", while other people didn't list any categories. And many people indicated they would consider having children "with the right partner", even though they were seeking "Celibate Marriage" or they were women over 50 years old.

Overall, this site still looks promising as a place for Reuniting people to find eligible partners. (I spotted half a dozen cuties that sparked my interest. However, I'm not going to contact them unless I decide to end my current marriage.) I think it's reasonable to assume that the 70% who didn't indicate a reason for being celibate are represented by those who did give reasons. So, about half the members are just postponing sex, and are probably assuming they would have ordinary, orgasmic sex later on. Since they have the patience and self-control to remain celibate for a while, many of them would probably be willing to try the Exchanges and karezza first, or try Luke's one-orgasm-per-month program. And most of the others are asexuals. Would they consider karezza as an acceptable alternative sort of bonding behavior, or would they consider it icky and invasive? It probably depends on the person. We won't know until someone asks!


for the market survey, CF! Sounds like your instincts are right...that a big chunk of Passionate Celibates would be open to karezza-style lovemaking.

I hope that if you choose a large goddess, you will stay away from the woman-on-top position. We would hate to lose you. Wink

I wish you

were writing all my articles, too! Nice job.

It's an excellent public service announcement, and may even "flush" some interested persons from the underbrush. Wink

dating sites for karezzaphiles (update)

I've "hung out" at celibatepassions.com for two or three months now and made email contact with a few people there. There was even one woman in my city who looked interesting, but I think she found someone else and got engaged before I had a chance to contact her.

The problems with that web site are: 1. It's painfully slow. It always takes several seconds to follow a link. 2. There aren't all that many active members. Currently there 140 members who have logged in within the last month. (If someone hasn't logged in within a month, they are probably "gone".) Total number of members is currently 3651.

At the lower right of the celibatepassions.com home page is a list of links to other sites that link to celibatepassions.com. I haven't explored those links very much, but some of them might be interesting.

I posted some articles about karezza at http://celibatepassions.com/blogs/index.php?author_name=engineerdude and also at the more conventional dating site http://passionsnetwork.com/blogs/index.php?author_name=engineerdude. I've only gotten one response to those articles so far, which is kind of disappointing. It might be partly due to posting them on my blog (which not many people would read) instead of on the forum.

The largest free, conventional dating site is plentyoffish.com, with "over 10 million members". Considering how few people there are on the Celibate Passions site, it probably makes more sense to meet people through conventional dating web sites or other methods of meeting people such as introductions through friends, participating in social groups, doing volunteer work, etc. And then talk to the people you meet about the benefits of karezza. Tutoring, one on one, so to speak. Smile

Well, whadaya know?!

Just this morning, a woman member of the Celibate Passions web site contacted me. I replied that I was interested and would like to know more about her. We shall see...