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. I am dating a beautiful person that I'm absolutely in love with. I do realize now that our past relationship was plagued with an addiction on my part. I needed that fix daily and I believe she was becomming my means to do so. I did not see the implications of her emotions and needs. Now I do. I want to change. Well, we have been practicing the exchanges for the last 10 days and it's been absolutely wonderful. We have also decided to set up days 4 days apart to make love. The two times this has occured- I have not ejaculated. I have gone 10 days now without ejaculation according to the information provided on this website. I have noticed increased energy, vitality and genuine heartfelt love for her. I am struggling with something. She is so beautiful to me. I literally go and am going crazy when I'm around her! Especially now. Am I taking on too much too quick? I do not know what to do at times. I can literally just look at her and go crazy for her. I love her so. I know this also sounds like a tinge of addiction. I do love her so much though. Guys (gals) - do you have any advice to get off this intense desire ride. I have been running ALOT and will go out (night) running many miles to help me.
She has been treated so bad by men all her life. Sex is plagued with so many bad memories. The thought of kissing me without it leading to sex is blowing her away. That is a beautiful thing. I want to sacrifice for her. I want her to heal through this! Every 4 days is great because then it would be more special anyway. I just need help in controlling this intense desire I have for her. I guess it could be the other way and that could be worse. Any advice you have? Thank you so much for this site. I do believe it may have saved us. :)


Very Cool

I like this practice a lot. I learned it after understanding that "Spanish Fly" (mythical aphrodisiac of my youth) was basically a urinary tract irritant used to make bulls want to fuck. I ascribed my morning woody to my dumb penis waking up and saying "Gotta pee, gotta's all the same."


It's all the same. Have you tried this? (Sorry, Marnia, I realize how unromantic this is.) Have sex when your bladder is full. When you get to the edge of orgasm, run to the bathroom and, while still on the very brink of orgasm, do a set of urination Kegels. To the penis at least, it feels just like an orgasm, but isn't. But you have to be extra careful, because in that situation the difference between initiating the real thing and initiating the simulation is miniscule. And bathrooms aren't designed for urinating with an erection. May be best to do this one while camping.

My experience.. that Kegel exercises may lead to orgasm. It happened almost routinely to me, apparently I trained it so much that I can stimulate the prostate without manual intervention.

I think that it's better to avoid any kind of surrogate orgasm or stimulation at all. That's like metadone for junkies. It's a patch, but doesn't really resolve anything at the root level.


Kegel exercises improve the strength, coordination, and control of the urethral sphincter and the bladder muscles. In the case of suppressing orgasm, the sphincter has to be stronger than the prostate. The prostate says let's go and the sphincter says no way and it becomes an isometric exercise. Saying that Kegel exercises lead to orgasm is like saying, as does John Hopkins Medical Center, that they actually weaken the Kegel muscles, when done during urination. In my experience that is absolutely wrong, besides being illogical. Do you do your Kegels while urinating? Most people don't. Kegels are worthless unless done while actually urinating.

I had

orgasms several times while doing Kegel exercises. That's my direct experience. I found it very surprising as well, until I researched a bit and discovered the logic behind it.

A good portion of the PC muscles is in direct contact with the prostate, and contracting them will also contract the prostate, which may lead to orgasm after a while.

A couple of links:

Of course, results may vary from person to person. Personally I get highly stimulated. Perhaps others are not.


...since semen is stored in the seminal vesicles, not the prostate, it would be the muscles around the seminal vesicles (is there a name for those muscles?) that must be overpowered by the urethral sphincter.

various questions and comments

[quote=John Humphrey Noyes]Kegels are worthless unless done while actually urinating.[/quote]
Why do you say that? I've done almost all my Kegels not while urinating, and I got to the point where I could block ejaculation.

I did two types of exercises alternately: 1. clamping and releasing the muscles as rapidly as I could perhaps 10 times, and 2. clamping down as hard as possible for 10 seconds, and releasing for 10 seconds, repeating a few times.

I haven't done any such exercises for a year, except recently, after reading your posts, I tried doing them while urinating. I did a couple dozen pulses and got kind of bored with it. Did that one evening, then again two mornings later. At noon of the day of the morning exercise, I noticed some slight discomfort while urinating, as you had mentioned might happen. I haven't continued the exercises, and haven't had any more discomfort since then. The discomfort felt the same as the discomfort from urinating after eating a lot of cranberries, or urinating in the morning immediately after masturbating to orgasm. I haven't noticed any discomfort associated with Kegels done not while urinating.

For me, Kegels (while not urinating) cause a pleasant sensation near the prostate. It's never been enough to give me an orgasm. But I have no difficulty believing Jkasali's claim that he can reach orgasm that way.

According to the Wikipedia article on seminal vesicles, "About 60% of the seminal fluid in humans originates from the seminal vesicles, but is not expelled in the first ejaculate fractions which are dominated by spermatozoa and zinc rich prostatic fluid."

I stand by my statement that I can have an orgasm without ejaculating. Really, John, I think I know what an orgasm feels like! Smile

I don't think you answered one of my earlier questions, John. Have you verified through actual experiment that you can hold off orgasm (intense peak sensations) during intercourse or masturbation simply by controlling your PC muscles?

Kegels and Taming the Shrew

To avoid a semantic argument, we have to agree on a definition of orgasm. In males, I'd say that it's the involuntary pulsatile contraction of the pelvic floor muscles, resulting in both the ejaculation of semen and the secretion of pituitary prolactin. So in my book, by definition, nobody can have an orgasm without ejaculation. If you want to define orgasm as the release of pituitary prolactin with or without ejaculation, and you can accomplish the latter by doing a set of Kegel exercises with an erection, but without urination, fine. Can you really do that? I've seen stuff on Ripley's believe it or not that I never would have believed without seeing it. Like the guy who swallows different stuff and regurgitates whatever you like on cue. But I actually saw it with my own eyes. Sorry, Curious Fellow, but I'm a skeptic. If you hooked yourself up to Dr. Kreuger's equipment and produced a prolactin spike on cue with your claimed dry orgasm, and you weren't just having the dry heaves because you had 12 orgasms in the last 12 hours, ok, I'd believe you. But I also have to reiterate that even if you are able to do that, why would you want to? We are trying to avoid prolactin spikes as the worst part of orgasm, right? Seems like if you wanted to separate orgasm into its different components, the thing to do would be to master ejaculation without the prolactin spike. Can you do that?

As for urination Kegels vs dry Kegels, it's like the difference between doing isometric curls and curls with a heavy barbell. Ok, the isometric curls aren't totally worthless, but you'll get a lot stronger with a barbell.

The problem during intercourse, as you know, is when she turns animal on you and your own animal responds and it's like this machine that has a life of its own. Well, one thing you can do is tell her to stop, dammit. Good luck with that one because she is gonna be pissed. The other thing you can do is let the machine have its head, roll with the punches, but keep your external urethral sphincter shut tight. And that is when you need a strong sphincter. Can I verify the strength of my own? No. My last girlfriend was a year ago and she got the better of me. It was right after that that I started doing the urination Kegels. I'm ready for another go, soon as I get a new girlfriend. I guess the sexier and hornier and more determined she is to have an orgasm, the harder it will be to prove my strength. Listen, if your girlfriend agrees with you that it's better not to have an orgasm, and won't get pissed when you shut things down, sex without orgasm is dead easy, right? But women like that are in short supply. And if Angelina Jolie wants to do me and have herself an orgasm, I'm not gonna turn her down.


I guess I would "define orgasm as the release of pituitary prolactin with or without ejaculation". That would conveniently cover female orgasm as well. As I've said, there are two ways I can have a "dry" orgasm.

1. Masturbate to orgasm, but when the orgasm starts, clamp down hard, as if trying desperately not to pee. The prostate and seminal vesicles go nuts, trying to ejaculate, but I just hold it in. The same intense feelings of orgasm occur whether I ejaculate externally or not.

2. Dream orgasms for me usually don't result in real-world ejaculation. When we're sleeping, the brain is to some extent cut off from the body. We can walk around, or fly, or whatever in our dream world, without the body doing anything. So why shouldn't we have dream orgasms without ejaculation? Still, it's a brain event, probably with release of prolactin and what-all, so it may have influence on our mood and perception of partners, etc. Marnia definitely reports unpleasant hangovers from dream orgasms.

"If you want to define orgasm as the release of pituitary prolactin with or without ejaculation, and you can accomplish the latter by doing a set of Kegel exercises with an erection, but without urination. fine." Actually, I can do the exercises without an erection. To have a dry orgasm, I would masturbate and that would usually involve an erection.

"Can you really do that?" Absolutely, that's what I've been telling you. I learned how to do it from some article on the internet about 15 years ago, so I'm sure I'm not the only one who can do it. Very likely you could do it too with little or no practice. If you can do it, you won't need to hook me up to a bunch of equipment to monitor prolactin in my blood. What a relief. I hate getting poked with needles. Smile

"But I also have to reiterate that even if you are able to do that, why would you want to?" That's an entirely different question! Does my user name give you a clue? Smile I've always been Curious about my sexuality. I've tried masturbating or having sex hundreds of different ways and mentally cataloged the different feelings. Sex in the morning feels different than sex at night. Doing it fast feels different than doing it slow. Etc., etc. So when I read that men can have orgasm without ejaculation, I just had to try it. It was another option to play with.

"We are trying to avoid prolactin spikes as the worst part of orgasm, right?" It might be the prolactin, but who knows. The more interesting question to me is, can we have an orgasm without the orgasm hangover effects that Marnia, you (in your previous incarnation), and others warn about? If so, how? Or is the only way to avoid the hangover to avoid orgasm entirely?

"Seems like if you wanted to separate orgasm into its different components, the thing to do would be to master ejaculation without the prolactin spike. Can you do that?" I have no idea what goes on with my prolactin, but what I can do is have a long series of very weak orgasms with oozing a few drops of semen each time. I discovered that about a year ago between periods of abstinence, and noticed that I would do that for several hours at a time - rather compulsively. So I stopped doing it.

"As for urination Kegels vs dry Kegels, it's like the difference between doing isometric curls and curls with a heavy barbell." Well, I'm not convinced that urination Kegels make you stronger than dry Kegels. And the slight discomfort from urination might be an indication that urine is going someplace it would be better not to go. So the dry Kegels feel a bit "safer" to me. It's a moot point for me right now because I don't plan to do Kegels, unless you can convince me that I can prevent orgasm that way.

"Well, one thing you can do is tell her to stop, dammit." I trained my wife early Smile "Good luck with that one because she is gonna be pissed." Fortunately (?) she isn't very orgasmic; she doesn't pursue orgasm. (Unfortunately she doesn't sleep with me at all any more, so... :-()

"The other thing you can do is let the machine have its head, roll with the punches, but keep your external urethral sphincter shut tight. And that is when you need a strong sphincter. Can I verify the strength of my own? No." Well, if you are willing to risk having an orgasm, you could try masturbating and then shutting your sphincter to try to avoid orgasm while continuing to stroke yourself. My bet is that you will have a dry orgasm, or a wet one if you lose control of your sphincter. Might be worth trying while you have no girlfriend in sight to see if works like you expect. I'd be Curious about what you find.

Do you have a refactory period?

The intense feeling that you are calling orgasm and assume is a prolactin secretion may actually be a dopamine spike. Since you don't have access to Dr. Kreuger, the best evidence would be a refractory period. So you you have one?

Obviously you can do Kegels without an erection, but didn't you say you could give yourself an orgasm with Kegel exercises, or was that somebody else? But you wouldn't be able to do them flacid and have an orgasm, would you?

You say you can ejaculate without prolactin secretion, which would mean no refractory period, which would make you multiorgasmic, right? All that means to me is that you have so much sex that your orgasms must be really small, with your ejaculations, dopamine and prolactin secretions, and refractory period accordingly small also. Even if you hooked up with Kreuger and showed me the evidence of unmeasurable prolactin after ejaculation, I'd bet the ejaculate was also almost unmeasurable.

Trying to force yourself to have an orgasm by masturbating, while trying not to have an orgasm by keeping the urethral sphincter clamped tight? Sounds like schizophrenia. An ejaculation would prove failure, but proving success is all a matter of time. The longer you go, the more successful you are, hence the addiction. It's a fools game. No thanks.

I'm curious

if you would feel better and less...well...irritable if you were trying karezza with a sweetheart, rather than reining yourself in by force. I hope you will make the experiment and let us know. Who knows? Even Angelina might like to try something different if you educate her first. Wink

Trying Karezza with a sweetheart... my #1 goal in life. I have in fact tried it with a few over the years, but they all thought I was crazy. I currently have no sweetheart, whether of the orgasmic nor the nonorgasmic variety, but I would not characterize myself as having to rein anything in. Sure, I wake up with a woody, but I am peacefully celibate. I scratch the itch perfectly well with the urination Kegels I have been advocating.

Choosing between, say a Rosie O'Donnell who wanted to do Karezza, and an Angelina who demanded orgasms, I'd go with the Angelina and attempt to educate her. I'm afraid, however, that women of most any stripe are looking not for a guy who wants to do Karezza, but for a Brad Pitt.

Thanks for your help in trying to educate women. If you can't get a spot on Oprah, maybe you could get through to Susanne Summers. She seems to be open to alternative healing, but I think I recently heard her discussing the healing powers of orgasm.


[quote=John Humphrey Noyes]Choosing between, say a Rosie O'Donnell who wanted to do Karezza, and an Angelina who demanded orgasms, I'd go with the Angelina and attempt to educate her. I'm afraid, however, that women of most any stripe are looking not for a guy who wants to do Karezza, but for a Brad Pitt.[/quote]

I think you explained your own problem right there. Go in with an attitude of judging women and dividing them into categories, and you'll get a woman who does the same right back to you.

Let me just reverse the genders in that quote, and see how it sounds to you:

"Choosing between, say a Drew Carey who wanted to do Karezza, and a Brad Pitt who demanded orgasms, I'd go with the Brad and attempt to educate him. I'm afraid, however, that men of most any stripe are looking not for a girl who wants to do Karezza, but for an Angelina Jolie."

There are women on this site, too. You might want to think about their feelings, also.

Could not have said it better...

...myself. I agree completely, and I do not blame women at all if they are looking for a Brad Pitt. Karezza is cool, even necessary, but it's not everything. You have to look at the whole package. Having mastered orgasm control, I am now busy trying to achieve Brad's income. However, I'm afraid plastic surgery can only do so much.

I can imagine a woman who would be willing to do Karezza, maybe is already even proficient at it, but on every other data point is not even close to being my match. No thanks.

Hurt somebody's feelings? My general comments may have collateral damage, but that can't be helped. I would never intentionally be rude to any woman interested in any kind of relationship. I can't say the same for the reverse. I have gotten several pieces of hate mail in response to my personal ads. As for Rosie, well, she can take it, and she certainly dishes it out.

Just curious,

have you ever thought about why looks are so important to you? I've asked myself this question, and have asked various men this question. The answers to this can be really interesting:

--Want good looking kids,
--Can get aroused easier with hot partner, and am concerned about sexual responsiveness
--Want status symbol, and envy of others due to doubts about self-worth
--Believe looks are more important than any other indication of compatibility
--Cannot conceive that the plan for my happiness would fail to accord completely with my mating-based impulses
-- ?

Think about what some of these thoughts in the list mean as you and your mate grow older. And think about what they would mean if you "get back what you give out." For example, do you think you would feel more loved and secure if your partner loved you just because you're her mate, or because she thinks of you as the best genetic prospect based on your looks? And what if some better looking male enters her radar before you're ready to move on yourself? What should she do if she's operating on this set of principles?

Think about the role of your genes' objectives in some of those items. Is it really *your* will at work at all? Genes want you to "gene shop." After all, if your kids are attractive they'll get more attractive mates, and your genes (in them) have better chances to continue long after you've checked off the planet.

Genes love it when you focus on looks. Novel partners will *always* look better (to you) than your current partner, so looks as top priority will make it easier to rationalize moving on whenever habituation sets in. Is this likely to make your life happier?

Also think about the possibility that oxytocin (a heart-centered connection) has the power to shift perception, and how that can make you look adorable to your mate indefinitely...and vice versa. In my experience, looks become largely irrelevant, and inner qualities far more impressive.

Having thought about how our genes jerk us around for their ends, I guess I'd say, "find a willing karezza partner, and THEN see if you have the same priorities."

Although you may not realize it, loneliness with rigid standards has a high price tag (no one to care about), and then, often, a rather shallow, easily broken, connection with someone who is also under biology's spell.

Good-looking Women

I'm not entirely serious about Angelina. She's an popular iconess, a talented actress, very cute, and a good height and weight for me. But her breasts and waist/hip ratio are a little large for my taste, and since she's a left wing wacko I'm boycotting her movies, so I don't think we're a match; Brad can have her. Hope I didn't hurt her feelings.

I like Keira Knightly, though most guys would say she's too skinny. She would age well with the small breasts. Don't know about her politics.

Now Janine Turner is hot. And a staunch conservative. And single, I think. And she lives a few miles from me. Hmmmm.

I guess I'm sounding like the guy in that Shallow Hal movie before he got hypnotized or whatever, huh? He must have been put under the spell of Karezza, which, as you know, keeps you so horny that, pardon the expression, you'll fuck anything that moves--and I'm philosophically opposed to polyamory. I'm not knocking Karezza, because, as you know, I'm a firm believer, but it's a little like a love potion, and you have to be careful what you get into. By the way, I'm also boycotting Gwyneth Paltrow and Jack Black movies.

I have other theories and philosophies of good mating besides Karezza, as if that didn't make finding a mate difficult enough. Mechanical, Nazi-esque eugenics, like height and bodymass ratios, and other stuff like that. Not very romantic, I know, but what good is computer dating if you can't crunch a few numbers? I guess you might say I'm under the spell of mathematics. I also have chronobiological theories that tend to put me under the spell of the moon. Now that's kinda romantic. By the way, we had a solar eclipse yesterday. Anyone notice any effect on mating behavior?

Thanks for your concern, Marnia, and I will consider your advice about lowering my standards.

*laughs outloud*

You're amazing. Actually, I think I was suggesting you *raise* your standards. *giggle*

Karezza doesn't make you hornier, dear. Bonding behaviors *ease* horniness. Really. They do. You just can't believe it until you try them for a while, exclusively, without orgasm or "edging" in the mix. My husband was amazed. After three days he felt his whole nervous system relax.

I think Drew Carey is hot.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. I have weird taste, though. :) Thank you, Amari, for sticking up for the ladies!

Mr. Noyes, maybe you should give Ann Coulter a call. I think she's still single. *Big surprise* Or are her boobs too small?

Already thought about Ann.

Too tall for me. Thanks for the suggestion, though. Laura Ingraham might work.

About boobs: read more carefully, sweetie. I favor small boobs.

Hey, you do know Drew Carey is a Republican?

What good is online dating

What good is online dating if you can't crunch a few numbers, you ask? Perhaps in that case you might need to add to your criterion a woman who understands Mandelbrot (tho perhaps that is a mathematical configuartion that is too curvaceous for your taste, maybe you prefer the more slender Julias? Or real versus imaginary numbers . . . each to their own).

The GREAT NEWS is that whether we look like Angelina or Brad or just ourselves, in truth we all actually look like a Mandelbrot, were anyone to really see the essence of us!

It is really daunting the amount of things one could think of that could be essential in a mate. I'd love to be able to talk about morphic fields with a mate, I find that very sexy. But only once did I meet a man who knew what I was talking about. We were at a rural dance out in the boonies in an old lone bar down a dirt road, and there was a sudden intermission from the music and a change of pace when a group of "scantily-clad" ladies did a little performance. This has been occuring more frequently at parties I've noticed - the men get a little eye candy, the women sip their drinks while the men oggle. But I had only noticed this phenomenon happening in the city where I live. So I said to the guy next to me, "Wow, it looks like the morphic field of porn is getting reinforced to the extent that you don't even have to turn on your computer anymore to check things out, the imagery just starts self-generating in everyday situations!"

He said, "Did you just say morphic field?"

We then had a long and sexy conversation about morphic fields. I may have ended up being more interested in him if he didn't have a porn habit and erectile dysfunction, two things that seemed related and disqualified the otherwise handsome man, even tho he COULD discuss morphic fields.

My sense is that the universe - being as intricately designed as it is (see Mandelbrot above) could easily orchestrate something much more deligtful than we could conceive of once we abandon our lists.

I think it's amazing

that you found out in a single conversation that a guy had a porn habit and an erectile dysfunction. I think many men would be scared to even admit that to their shrink!

Also, my mom is a Republican, and I love her more than anything. I don't generally judge people by their political ideologies, but by their actions. I've learned that listening to other people's opinions is more productive than immediately engaging in debate. And really, Noyes, I don't care what size boobs you like or which actresses turn you on. I probably should not have made that smart ass comment, but instead simply asked that you refrain from ANY pro-Nazi comments on this forum. I, personally, found that very offensive. Thanks.

But, I gotta hand it to you. With just a few comments, you got the attention of the three currently active females on this site. Nice work.

I found out about the porn

I found out about the porn problem and erectile dysfunction on subsequent nights . . . .

But I do tend to bring that kind of information out of people very easily . . . I am frank and honest and so they can be too. One of my dearest friends who I dated briefly for three months was the first one to introduce me to the gravity and breadth of the problem of porn addiction. It was on our first date that I asked him if he had any addictions and he admitted to porn since about the age of 13 or so. He was NOT happy about it. The best remedy he had found was becoming a firefighter, being far away from a computer in the mountains with a bunch of men. I met him shortly after firefighting season. He was muscular and handsome and had a lovely thick beard and looked like a late-nineteenth century german philosopher/mountain man.

It was after dating him that I found men with beards attractive for the first time. It was also after dating him that I went almost an entire year without being able to find a guy who was not addicted to porn. Patterns, once started, can take on a life of their own . . .


I have studied only the Fibonacci fractals. Thanks for showing me those, Hotspring. I see they have manifestations in biology, too.

When you say that our (human?) essence looks like a Mandelbrot, is that your way of saying that "everyone is beautiful, in their own way" or do you have some theory of manifestations of Mandelbrot fractals in human biology? I fear the former, because I know some pretty ugly people, but ok. I actually have looked for what I think might be termed fractal patterns in the structure of DNA, specifically a sequence of Pythagorean triplets.

On the anatomical level, I enjoy Aristotle's analysis of human anatomy with the phi ratio in his Vitruvian Man, as well as other manifestation of phi, as in the nautilus. I have tried to find a phi ratio in an ideal human couple, but no luck. My working hypothesis, not related to phi, is that there is some kind of mass harmonics at play, and that a 3/4 female to male mass ratio strikes some kind of waltz-like, harmony. A 5/4 ratio would be more like phi and is a musical rhythm I especially enjoy. Stature ratios are also interesting, as well as torso to leg-length ratios, etc., which brings us back to Vetruvian Man.

Thanks also for pointing out morphic fields. Had not heard of them, but they are right down my alley. Unfortunately, the morphic field I am going to encounter in about month is a classroom of about 30 Arabs trying to learn English in Saudi Arabia.

The list is just a first approximation. Can't count how many I've tossed mine out the window, sometimes to my detriment. But if you keep telling me about morphic fields....very sexy, indeed!

Ahhhhh, Saudi Arabia. I

Ahhhhh, Saudi Arabia. I taught English in Istanbul for awhile. Lots of sexual frusteration and loneliness in the Muslim world. Lots of anal sex gong on there to "preserve" women's virginity. Might be a haven for some.

I was referring to the Mandelbrot as the visual depiction of the fourth dimension, which we all live in tho we often are deluded into thinking we live in the other dimensions that its comprised of. Maybe if we were able to admit we are fourth-dimensional beings, none of this stuff would matter. Point being, matter is inherently structured in myriad beautiful ways already by being born constantly from chaos. That includes you, me, the movie stars, sexually-frusterated porn-addicted Capitalists and sexually-frusterated Muslims. Perhaps the fractal configuration and organization of a person shifts and changes shape according to their ability to wake up to the reality of the fourth dimension?

And were we to actually catch up with the speed of light, our bodies would morph in unpredictable ways. . . . Angelina's boobs might just shrink, and Keira could become obese. Better perhaps to stay in the third dimension where things are a bit more predictable, even with all its limitations.


Have you ever turned a video camera upside down and pointed it at its monitor? Yes, there was a time in my crazy youth I was serious about becoming a physicist...

I can vouch for what you

I can vouch for what you say, Marnia, about the heart-centered connection shifting perceptions of atttractiveness. Now that I've "recalibrated" my head and my heart, the things that used to drive me crazy about GH are now adorable. I've started calling him Turtle as a nickname, because he just takes his sweet time! Needless to say he's back in NM again, working on a film about illegal immigration across the Rio Grande.

Biology still flirts with me, more intensely than ever. I haven't been drawn to many of the hotties around riding their bikes (aside from a brief and casual enjoyment of their attractiveness), but I did have a very vivid and strange vision the day after meeting Mamacita where this little baby's face, which felt to be my son's, was laughing at me and flirting with me with a relentless charm! It seemed really psyched to see that it had finally suceeded in getting mom and dad back to together again. So we'll see what becomes of that. I think that is really what I was resisting most with GH: knowing that being with him in any serious capacity would lead to a family. I could sense there were some souls waiting in line, eager to get on board with this strange experiment called being a human.


It's amazing, eh? To realize how much our perception is determined by our feelings. *shakes head in wonder*

Good luck with your plans.

JHN - Sphincter strength is

JHN - Sphincter strength is great and all, but I think its possible to go overboard. Actually, its not only possible, I've seen it firsthand. I was a caregiver for an old hippy for a year and a half. He was highly-medicated, schizophrenic and obsessive-compulsive (also, just a very nice guy who couldn't handle all the "rhetoric" of society, even progressive hippy commune society). He spent all day lying on his bed doing Kegel exercises. Why? He had no lover and very little prospect of a lover, but he wasn't practicing for that occasion. The reason he practiced so intently is that he thought his intestines would come out his urethra if he didn't keep Kegeling. Be forewarned, anyone on this site who has compulsive tendencies - kegeling can be addictive like anything else.


"The intense feeling that you are calling orgasm and assume is a prolactin secretion may actually be a dopamine spike. Since you don't have access to Dr. Kreuger, the best evidence would be a refractory period. So you you have one?"

If I have an orgasm while preventing ejaculation, then I can masturbate some more and have a regular orgasm perhaps 30 seconds to a minute after the dry orgasm. I suspect that's possible because the prostate and seminal vesicles are still full and ready to discharge. After a regular orgasm, it takes a few minutes to recharge the fluids.

What I call orgasm probably is a dopamine spike. I'm not sure what your point is, though.

"Obviously you can do Kegels without an erection, but didn't you say you could give yourself an orgasm with Kegel exercises, or was that somebody else? But you wouldn't be able to do them flacid and have an orgasm, would you?"

Jkasali was the one who says he had orgasms while doing Kegels.

It might interest you that I usually have my multiple mini-'gasms/mini-ejaculations when I am nearly flaccid - only the weak beginnings of an erection. (This is entirely different technique and result from the orgasms-without-ejaculation. Am I confusing you, yet? Lol

"You say you can ejaculate without prolactin secretion,"

Well, not in so many words.

"which would mean no refractory period, which would make you multiorgasmic, right?"

I can
1. Have a dry orgasm, followed (if I want) by a regular orgasm 30 seconds later, or
2. Have a bunch of mini 'gasms spaced about 5 minutes apart, over a period of several hours.

"Trying to force yourself to have an orgasm by masturbating, while trying not to have an orgasm by keeping the urethral sphincter clamped tight? Sounds like schizophrenia."

Well, just trying to approximate what would happen if your girlfriend doesn't stop and drives you beyond the point where you would normally have an orgasm. Can you hold off your orgasm by clamping your urethral sphincter shut? I believe you can hold off ejaculation, perhaps indefinitely, but you won't be able to hold off orgasm.

I can masturbate and get to a point where I know, if I continue stroking at the same rate and intensity, I will reach orgasm in five seconds. Clamping down does absolutely nothing to delay orgasm (for me). Or, conversely, if I try to pump my PC muscles to try to make the orgasm happen sooner, it doesn't make it happen any sooner. Or if I stop stroking and try to reach orgasm just by pumping my PC muscles, that doesn't work either. So, to recap, for me, reaching orgasm has everything to do with externally stimulating my penis. It has nothing to do with Kegels.

Jkasali is different. Apparently he can reach orgasm through Kegels. Jkasali, can you delay or prevent orgasm with Kegels?


Welcome to the forum, and thanks for posting your experience here so you can get everyone's input.

First of all, your generosity toward your partner is *very* touching. Thanks for having the courage to try something so unfamiliar, so selflessly. I love the fact that we humans have the power to become a healing force in each other's lives. I feel sure that her increasing comfort is going to return to you in many ways over the future.

Feeling *too* loving, eh? In my experience, this intensity *will* settle down, as your nervous system adjusts. This is a big change. Be patient.

Exercise is good, so is throwing your new found energy into something creative. Make a list of what you want to accomplish and *amaze* yourself.

Also, are you going too near the edge during intercourse? That can increase frustration, too.

Finally, if you're really desperate ;-), you might try a compromise like this couple. That will also give you a chance to compare the two approaches to lovemaking.

Let us know how it goes! (Blog if you like:

*a big hug*

Slow down a bit

It sound like you guys are doing great, but 10 days is not very long to allow your bodies to adjust to a new way of doing things. I relate to your girlfriend, and how she feels about sex... also her new found relief that kissing and other forms of affection do not always have to lead to sex. I would suggest giving her the time and space to really experience that feeling with you. I promise she will love you even more for it. Maybe you could try and focus more attention on non sexual affection for a couple more weeks, and find yourself a hobby. :)


absolutely great. Having someone like that must be wonderful. Too bad I am too inexperienced to give advice.. but in this case, I suppose that "follow your heart" is a good one.