My story so far...

Submitted by Claire on
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Hi. I am 24 years of age and have been with my husband for the last three years. We began practising controlled intercourse after a couple of months of being together. My husband does not see any problem with orgasm but has granted my wish for us both to renounce them totally (together or alone) which he says is because of love for me.

A few background notes (this is a little hard to share): Throughout my childhood and teenage years I was a frequent masturbator, which later became quite an addiction for many years, a way to escape from and numb myself to a life I wasn't enjoying. I recieved no information from anywhere that masturbation was harmful just a voice within wondering if orgasming really was as without consequence as it is commonly said to be. Well some part of me answered that question in a dream set in a place of light where I saw written in a triangle the words "Do not masturbate because you lose your power". My mind did not comprehend what the word power meant in this context so I disregarded the dream and continued. (I guess now power is synomymous with energy for me). A few years later I joined some classes where it was taught, among other things, that one must avoid orgasm so I told my husband (boyfriend at the time) that is the way it would have to be. I have since left those classes for other reasons, so was absolutely delighted to discover the Reuniting site.

The most obvious benefit to me has been that my menstrual pain has become completely mild as compared to unbearable before I renounced orgasm (my bodies confirmation of the benefits it seems). After making love with my husband in this way there is a feeling of fullness in my aura, so to speak. I consistently experience feelings of deep well being, a renewed connection to my husband each time and a lightness in my step. (I have never experienced such feelings after an orgasm, only flatness/emptiness/sleepiness/sadness) He too says he is satisfied despite there being no orgasm.

Initially while trying to get the hang of controlled intercourse we both have had slip ups of various degrees. Regarding my husband and wet dreams in the last three years he has only had one which was toward the end of a 8 month peiod where apart while he was overseas. The dream was a non-erotic one where the orgasm just came out of nowhere (whereas he has mentioned erotic dreams where there is orgasm in the dream but they are not wet dreams.) This I believe shows that non-orgasmic sex does not leave a person physically pent-up, where as no sex probably would. Because there was no love making between us for that time I believe his body did get pent up so released it at night. I guess that it works due to the sumblimation of sexual energies, as it is sometimes referred to, that happens during lovemaking without orgasm.

Lastly I wanted to mention I have twice fallen pregnant (nicely spaced 2.5 yrs apart) without orgasm/ejaculation. I am positive no slip-ups or near-misses were responsible as there where none around the time we conceived. So it only reconfirms for me that orgasm is not necessary at all. Although I should add they occasionally happen in my dreams, as do other former addictions like smoking.

That concludes my story so far. Thankyou for the space to share it. I look forward to reading other's experiences.

Inspiring

This is so inspiring. I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. I have been searching for some real life evidence of conceiving a child without orgasm. My husband and I have been together for 6 years in marriage and 4 years before that as boyfriend and girlfriend. We started going out when I was 16 and he was 17 – high school sweethearts. We had our first sexual experience like about a year before we got married.

Reflecting back on our sexual experiences then it was tyranny. Well the reason being is because we were only having sex and not making love. It was so animalistic, mechanic and short. After a few minutes of sex he would have an orgasm and that would be the end of it all. I was left like a rag as if I was used up for what I was supposed to be used up for and that is it. He did love me even than (not as much as he does now though), but having no understanding of how love making is supposed to be and how the sexual energies work we were left to pay. Also because of the media, friends talks and other very brutal information about sex and sexual pleasure and lust that one receives in the teenage years gives one a completely wrong picture of love and sex and on top of that putting it into practice turns out a complete disaster. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

On the other hand I had an expectation that I had to orgasm as well and was feeling bad that I wasn’t. Well the reason being was that he was so animalistic, mechanic and short. We didn’t have any spiritual and loving connection. This was going on for months until I spoke up. It was hard for me to talk to him about it as I didn’t feel comfortable. Even after I spoke up things didn’t change over night. It took some time and effort to make things “work”. Than we were expecting that we both have to orgasm at the same time or at least first me and than him. We were exhausted of trying to time things up so we can both orgasm. It was a hustle and a nightmare because we were not connecting with each other on a level that is higher than physical. We were just getting “hot” and filling ourselves with passion and lust with a final aim to orgasm at the end. It was a disaster.

This way of sex continued even after marriage and it improved a bit in the way we were making love now even though the orgasm was still there. Having been caught in the life drama we hardly found time for love making. I must admit that it happened that weeks or sometimes even months would pass without having sex. There were times that we wouldn’t even remember when was the last time we did it. Nevertheless that is to mean that we were not getting along or we were not close enough. Quite the opposite, we actually bonded even more and our love become stronger. We were and still are happy enough just to lie down on the sofa all snuggled up and be affectionate. Lots of kisses and hugs out of love without being “hot and horny”. We just liked to spend time together and bond. As time passed by without making love (having sex) that often and actually having quality time together we started making love (having sex) without orgasm. That started all spontaneous just the way we felt. For example we would be cuddling in bed affectionately and didn’t feel that we needed to go that extra mile to get all worked up and orgasm at the end. We felt like we didn’t want to kill those beautiful moments and actually wanted to feel in love for the rest of the night or day. We didn’t really discuss about it, it was turning out like that by itself. It was just the way it was supposed to be.
In the meantime I got involved with Gnosis and discovered Alchemy (White Tantra, Sexual Magic, Maithuna). I started reading a lot about that topic and that is how I came to this website Reuniting. I was totally blown away and my world was turned upside down to realise that these teachings are about sex without orgasm which is what we are actually doing now but what totally opposite to what our society is been taught to believe. Being taught in this day and age to believe in sex with orgasm and not only encouraging that but saying that is bad if you don’t orgasm and now all of a sudden I come up a teaching that is strongly opposing that was a shock for me. I also felt emotional because of the way I was expecting to orgasm when having sex at the beginning of my relationship. I was thrown from one extreme to another. Because I am an open minded person I took this issue very seriously and started studying and researching and also observing myself and searching within. I came to realise the fact that we do not orgasm lately while making love of which I didn’t see it in that way before. Things started to fall into place. Until…..recently.

Well the problem now is that my husband wants us both to have a baby. He strongly stays on the fact that he needs to have an orgasm and ejaculate semen. On the other hand I having investigated about conceiving a child without orgasm wanted to try it that way. We tried for a couple of months but than he said that this is not getting us anywhere and that we need to seriously take some action. I tried explaining to him how it works (with the limited knowledge that I have), but he thinks I have been brainwashed and is banning me from visiting all the websites or going to lectures or courses about these things. He says it is impossible, that we need him semen for a conception to happen. Now I am looking for evidence a proven facts of conceiving a child without orgasm. Some students have been very helpful in helping me out, you can check my topic and all the post at http://www.gnosticteachings.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4149
That is how I came across “My story so far..” submitted by Claire on this Reuniting website. I am so pleased to read this story as it has given me hope. Thank you so much Claire sharing it, it is one of the things that I was searching for.

I hope my story would be of some help for somebody. I would appreciate if there are any real life stories of conceiving a child without orgasm that one would like to share. Any other evidence such as scientific or ancient texts and scriptures from the worlds greatest religions and traditions.

A suggestion for humble

Hello humble:
may i suggest that You get a copy of Dr.R.W.Bernard's book "Science Discovers the Physiological Value of Continence". You can get it from Health Research at www.healthresearchbooks.com.

I feel that this book - and possibly others published by Health Research - will help You somehow, perhaps not to solve entirely Your problem, but certainly to reinforce Your intuition and Your resolve to pursue this most fascinating and focal problem.

Also, by the same Author and from the same Publisher, "Mysteries of Human Reproduction", this being the book that You will most appreciate, and, in fact, the one that You have been looking for.

My best wishes to You!

jb Mirabile-caruso.

It would appear to me, Marnia, that

present Medical Science has produced - and can avail itself of - mountains of data whose existence, only a few decades ago, we did not have even the souspicion of. But when we come to see if this higher amount of data corresponds to a higher understanding of whatever problem is under investigation, my observation is that data and understanding appear to be inversely proportional.

That is, more data less understanding. Which paradoxically means that we are marching towards a total confusion.

Conversely, by going back only a few decades ago - and even better centuries ago - with a fraction of the data we have today, those people could come up with a higher degree of understanding.

They had a far lower knowledge and a far higher understanding. We have a far higher knowledge and a far lower understanding. Well.... if this is the trend, i do not see why an individual searching for the Truth should ever get involved with the "updated" material of modern Medicine. Only those who love to manufacture their own personal truths - like kids do with the mechano game - can be interested in acquiring and playing with modern medical knowledge. Dont You think?

My best regards. And thanks for Your attention.

jb Mirabile-caruso.

"abomination"

Is a rather strange word for something that the body does so easily...just because it feels good (and because there's no obvious way to link the drawbacks with the short-term pleasure).

Thinking of anything as an "abomination" is a time-honored way to give it an aura of the forbidden, and therefore of (often) addictive, excitement. We think people are better off finding their way toward balance because of the gifts it offers, and not through beliefs in wickedness.

May I ask what led you to such an extreme point of view?

The post you're responding to is quite old. Claire was a follower of Samael Aun Weor, who wrote some pretty colorful things about sex. http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/source/neo-gnostic_samael_aun_weor Weor's work is quite popular in South American and in Spain.

We're also curious where the information about excess semen and defecation came from.

Reply

Why did replies wind up all over the place? Anyway, it seems like even with regular karezza, "nocturnal pollutions" still occur. Supposedly with spiritual training, this stops, and I'm still trying to figure out why. Specific practices to redirect the sexual energy probably help, but I think it has to do with frame of mind also. The energy exchange that happens in male-female union is probably unrelated to whether the man can reabsorb the fluids, but that's just my guess.

Mating season in June: Thanks for the insight, jb! Just out of curiosity, are you a vegan or vegetarian? Do you avoid aphrodisiac foods like garlic and onions?

I don't sense any feminism that objects more to porn than orgasm from Marnia, nor any femme-domme orgasm-denial fetish going on. Coddling, in any event, is not a dom behavior, is it? If it were a dom-sub relationship, there'd be dom behavior, but there isn't.

EDIT: Weird. My reply also went to the wrong place...

This text is available online

here:
http://www.ktk.ru/~cm/contin.htm

But, I warn you, I think the author was the same guy who wrote a piece about the earth being hollow, and home to an entire civilization....

There's lots of dated medical material, and it's an interesting look in to a past perspective. It *does* suggest that maybe things were calmer before online porn became so widely available. Smile

These days many men are wondering if they're hyper-sexed, because it's so excruciating to give up orgasm for any length of time. More likely they're simply over-stimulated. Porn is "supranormal" stimulation and the brain seizes on it and quickly lays down pathways in the brain to draw attention to all cues (associations) related to it. No wonder someone who uses porn a lot feels horny all the time.

It seems a nasty high price to pay for a bit of harmless-seeming entertainment. Of course, the brain doesn't see it as entertainment. It sees opportunities for sexual stimulation as critical to our genetic success...and zeros in accordingly. There's no more serious business than that - in its "view."

I agree that truth is not dependent

upon data, and data often gets in the way of truth.

I feel that the insights about the connections between our mating neurochemistry and the emotional alienation between couples are VERY valuable for those steeped in the Western, pro-scientific-data mindset. Not because the science is valuable in and of itself, but because modern man (or woman) is SO resistant to the idea of using sex differently, and so disinclined to consider ancient wisdom a credible source, that he/she NEEDS the science to open his/her mind.

There are many articles on my site that do not mention mating neurochemistry. (See the "Wisdom" section of our website.) Anyone who is willing to experiment with controlled intercourse and compare the results with conventional sex will, over time, arrive at the same wisdom that people have been stumbling on for thousands of years. No science data at all is needed, although careful observation may be.

I, myself, did not find the science until a decade into my understanding based on ancient wisdom and actual personal experience. I was already convinced. The science just confirmed the ancient wisdom in a new way, and furnished another language for understanding and explaining.

At our site, we try to hold open many doorways to the key insights. Sometimes, the science people find the wisdom articles distasteful, and vice versa. All are just different flavors of information, which is there to motivate people to try something new and find the Truth for themselves. Any of us who want our fellow humans to experience this wisdom for themselves, in order to relieve their misery and help brighten the world, want it to be available in as many flavors as possible. Don't you agree?

I'm not a scholar of the Bible, but...

...I like its use of the word "abomination" in reference to stuff like homosexuality or masturbation. Seems to capture my feelings nicely. I don't eschew either on biblical authority, but simply out of revulsion. Most societies have traditionally had taboos on both practices, so why should my position be considered extreme, except by those caught up in the current frenzy of liberal fascism? Most of the traffic here seems to concern weaning guys off of a masturbating-to-porn addiction, so on some level you do disapprove of it. I sense a strain of feminism, however, that objects to the porn more than the masturbation. By the way, you must realize that some of your traffic surely must be here to play out some kind of femme-domme orgasm-denial fetish. No offense, but it's absurd the way they whine about their "addiction," and then you just coddle them.

As for the discharge of excess semen during defecation, I don't have a reference handy, but I assume you know that massaging the prostate can force semen out of a flaccid penis. I think there must also be a female analogue to this.

Thanks for the reference to Weor. Never heard of him, but I'll check him out.

Hi, Tantra 11

Were i to label myself as a vegetarian or a vegan, i would most certainly mislead You. I simply adhere to the so-called "mucusless diet", practiced and advocated by the German Professor of Drawing Arnold Ehret who discovered it after a life-long search for a cure for his own terminal pathology.

Saying "discovered", actually, it appears a bit misleading as well, for the mucusless diet is none other than that very one presented to Humanity, some thousand years ago, by the Writer of the Biblical Genesis: fruits and vegetables.

By "vegetables" is meant "leafy greens", that is, starchless domesticated and wild herbs. By adhering to this diet we undergo a radical and through disintoxication of our Organisms with the natural resulution of all our chronic irritations and inflammations, one of which we know by the name "libido".

Seeing things from the stand of my experience, i must confess that all this bustle to "overcome sex by sex" that we do observe on this Forum, - not to mention the hundreds of books on this subject - appears to me as a tragicomedy, for it is an impossibility to solve a "problem" by acting on its "symptoms". Libido is NOT the problem, but only the symptom of the true problem, which happens to be DIET. It is the toxicity produced and supported by our omnivorian diet, in fact, which is the sole responsible of the chronic inflammation of our sexual apparatuses and the consequencial birth of our obssessive libido.

And one more thing, and then i come to a close: chastity is the effortless, spontaneous outcome of the Edinic diet, and - in it and by it without the need of any artificial agitation - Eros, in time, transmutes itself into Agape.

For...... this was the original reality It fell from, and to this reality It will rise again!

jb Mirabile-caruso.

Thanks, jb

It's interesting to compare notes. My path seems to be learning how to remove the obstacles to love (projections of sensations of lack, leading to defensiveness and separation) that prevent us from recognizing our oneness with each other. The goal is not overcoming libido, as such. It's shifting our perception by moving toward feelings of wholeness and oneness, which in turn make it easier to align with Spirit.

Tell us more about your path of diet.

Well.....Marnia,

we share the objetive of "wholeness and oneness", and also we share the absolute necessity of preventing what is generally called "sexual energy" from escaping our Organisms. Before going any further in our conversation, however, let me express my dissatisfaction with the expression "sexual energy" on account of its inherent impalpability: it leaves us in vagueness, while we actually need to bring things down to concreteness in order to really understand what we are talking about. I propose to use, instead, the expression "sexual fluids", which are "concentrated nutrition" meant by Nature to jump-start a new life - if and when we so decide - AND "to permanently nourish" our neurological system.

There is only "one" obstacle to Love, Marnia, and this very one obstacle prevents us from experiencing "oneness which each other", oneness with Nature, oneness with the Universe, oneness with God. It prevents also, most tragically, from recognizing our own true Divine identity. And it also prevents us from escaping the dualistic existence we have fallen in.

Its name is "neurological nutritional deficiency". And when we come to this shocking realization, we are taken by force face to face to the coral issue of diet. For two reasons: 1. there cannot possibly be any "assumed" diet which can nourish us as efficiently and as effectively as our biological diet: and 2. it cannot possibly be that our biological diet causes - and supports - the chronic genital inflammation called "libido".

And so libido, though not constituting, per se, the problem, IS, however, an indisputable pathological symptom of a faulty diet.

By following the path of Karezza, Marnia, we are "assuming" that libido is perfectly physiological, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, that it's natural playing with it, but..... - at the same time - we deny orgasm which is its inherent outcome. How can we possibly account for such a paradoxical contradiction? Perhaps on this other theoretical "assumption": that - by preventing the sexual fluids from exiting the Organism - we can experience Love both at the physical and the spiritual level.

My personal experience, however, does NOT support the validity of this hypothesis. For, by virtue of our dietary normalization, we effortless and spontaneously experience a progressively waning of Eros and a paralleling surging of Agape. Is Nature perhaps wrong?

jb Mirabile-caruso.

Thanks for expanding

I guess I'm still puzzled by the male-centeredness of your argument. Women typically don't ejaculate, and lubrication in both sexes is natural and healthy during sex. Are these not "sexual fluids?"

On the other hand your "neurological nutritional deficiency" is pretty close to what we've been learning about low dopamine and its unhelpful effects.

May I ask the source of your learning?

What standpoint are You looking from, Marnia?

If You look at Humans from the "evolutionary" standpoint, then they will appear to You as males and females. And, indeed!, they are sexually differentiated anatomically and physiologically. And You can be legitimately puzzled by their
rispective centeredness.

But if You try to look at them from the "involutionary" standpoint, then there will no longer be males and females in front of You, but only fallen androgynes. True, their nutritional haemorrhage manifests itself differently in accordance to their different physiologies, but their fall-drama is one and the same, and it takes place in their neurology.

Fall implies rise. And rise takes place spontaneously by simply "sinning no more". And the sin is - as it was originally with Adam and Eve - the ingestion of dietary substances which go to produce toxic inflammation of our genitalia known as libido.

The source of my learning? The same as Yours and everybody else: the innate vague memory of things past.

jb Mirabile-caruso.

Yes,

"fallen androgynes" is consistent with what I've been (re)learning. And there may be more than one path to "rise." Many traditions have "solo" and "dual" paths, for example. Perhaps diet is critical in the case of solo paths, and (for all I know) helpful to those on the dual path.

In any case, I'm certain my focus is the "dual" path this lifetime. It's best summed up in this phrase in the "Hua Hu Ching":

To cultivate the mind, body, or spirit, simply balance the polarities. If people understood this, world peace and universal harmony would naturally arise.

Lao Tzu's also talking about a path to non-dual perception, which I think of as "return to androgynous mind."

Getting Preg.

One way that some friends have used is to massage the prostate gland, semen will be expressed with no orgasm, this fluid then can be deposited within the vag. as close to the opening of the cervex as possible.

Good luck

JJ

My story so far...

Wow! I wish my dreams were so clear. I could have learned everything I learned while writing "Peace" a lot faster! As it was, I was scratching my head in confusion at every step. :)
 
Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure it will comfort others. Incidentally, my husband has had about one ejaculation per year since we've been doing this...and also not through overheating sexually. Maybe the body just does a "housecleaning" now and then...?

Marnia

We haven't

really noticed a clear pattern, but the ancient Taoists said spring is the month for most frequent ejaculation, winter, not at all.

What did you find?

Mating season

My guess was Spring as well, though that would result in babies being born in winter, which might not be the best time for a newborn. Or maybe it is? Beltane is in March, so that might be a vestige of ancient wisdom. I wonder if the summer solstice was also a highly sexual time?

Mating season

My experience indicates that Humans' mating season is June. Having sponteneously "silenced" my libido through dietary reform - to which, incidentally, i have been dedicating the last three decades of my life - it reappears, out of nothing, every June and lasts for between two and three weeks.To misteriously disappear again till the following June.

According to this schedule, births would take place in Spring which makes quite a lot of sense to me.

jb Mirabile-caruso.

My story so far...

Regarding "housecleaning", that is one of the reasons my hubby doesn't agree with the practice of withholding ejaculation as he believes the semen does need to be released frequently to stop it stagnating. He has expressed that he hopes this method won't cause him health problems later in life, whereas I am convinced there is only health benefits to be had...well time shall tell.

I was trying to express near the end of my initial post that I believe at this point in time that to prevent the stagnation of sexual fluids/semen fairly frequent intercourse without orgasm/ejaculation is necressary to *somehow* process (refine maybe?) the fluids so they can reabsorbed positively by the body. On the other hand celibacy I believe will eventually lead to stagnation and thus the body having nocturnal pollutions, for males anyway. Of course I may be wrong though...

Female dream orgasms are a total enigma to me.....I would love to understand them and do whatever I could to avoid them if only I knew what.

troubling belief

The belief that

"to prevent the stagnation of sexual fluids/semen fairly frequent intercourse without orgasm/ejaculation is necessary to *somehow* process (refine maybe?) the fluids so they can reabsorbed positively by the body. On the other hand celibacy I believe will eventually lead to stagnation and thus the body having nocturnal pollutions, for males anyway"

is troubling. It would make health and hygiene dependent on either intercourse or masturbation, and put into effect, give single folks an air of either desperation or isolation. Unfortunately, you are not alone. This belief underlies the popularity of both prostitution and pornography. You may not be aware that excess semen is excreted during defecation, due to the pressure put on the prostate. However, without sexual stimulation, there is not much excess semen to begin with.

It's much better to think of masturbation as an abomination, and intercourse not as a physical necessity, but an expression of love.