masturbation

Submitted by light on
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hello,

I have been addicted to porn and wanking for quite a long time now. maybe 10 years. I am 27.
I have noticed that during times of frequent masturbation I get semen leakage. when I take som time off masturbation the seamen leakage seem to stop. I get the leakage when I am horny. Is this a sign of overmasturbation? I also have problems holding my erection for a long time and I also get less horny on real women, compared to sitting infront of computer watching the porn.

I am masturbating about 5-6 times pr week while watching hardcore porn. I guess this i too much and not healty for me in the long term.
I have problems with anxiety, lack of consentration and tiredness. Can this be related to my masturbation?
I am planning now to take 30 days off masturbation and porn, and then keep my masturbation frequency to once every 14 days. seems like a good idea?

What is optimal masturbation frequency, so that you stay healty?

I am on my way on improving my life. I have quitted caffeine (bad for the adrenal glands) and sodas. Been eating less fat and trying to get more sleep. Only my wanking addiction left :)

m78 As Marnia Robinson has

m78

As Marnia Robinson has detailed in her books, frequent orgasm and ejaculation lead to anxiety, lack of consentration and tiredness because of the chemicals involved in those experiences.

As for optimal masturbation frequency with ejaculation -- I don't know. It is probably different for everyone. Try once a week to see how you feel. Don't stroke it to porn either. I'm not sure if your arousal is due to the porn or to the physical stimulation. I think you want to get to the point where the stimulation is the key and that it is more of an energy experience for you, not one dependent upon outside visual stimulation.

You will probably become more attractive to real woman after you stop the masturbation and porn because you will be forced to put your sexual energy in someone and in a relationship. That can be very satisfying and might even lead to your genes surviving for centuries to come. Wonderful.

Hey light!

Welcome back. Glad you're still trying to figure out this riddle. We've learned more since you were here. Check out the wiki link for some of it.

Hi light,

I think taking 30 days off is a great idea, it will give you some insight into what causes you to p/m and will probably help with the anxiety and tiredness, etc. As for limiting your masturbation frequency after that, I think we all need to discover what's right for us, so I can't really offer an opinion... but I think abstaining for 30 days will help you figure things out with a clearer head.

Good luck,
time_for_change

hello

Thanks for the advices. I will actually take 60 days off from masturbation and porn to restart my system. After that I am not sure what to do. But I cant imagine never masturbate again. I am thinking of doing it without watching porn, and keep frequency to 1 every 14 days. I just have to remind myself about the negative things about porn so that I will not forget and watch porn again (happened last time I stopped :(
Last time I was able to quit with p/m for 90 days. but then I forgot why I did it and slipped back to p/m again.
After the 90 days period I noticed that I was more sensitive than normal and that I didnt need any other stimulation to make me horny. Also the semen leakage stopped. During times with low frequency of masturbation has also been the times when I have been most interested in women and I have ended up in bed with them.

I have noticed that I have a addictive behavior towards many stimulants. Caffeine, nicotine, coke, alcohole. But now I dont use any of these stimulants. Best to completely stop them. Because when I start with one of them I can never be sattisfied enough and I contiously use more and more.

So do I get the idea right that:

1. stop masturbation and porn for some months
2. Then go back to a lower frequensy of masturbation without artificial stimulation?

Or are there people here who completely stop masturbation?

Can u also just give some examples of positive benefits I can expect during this period without p/m?

Benefits

I guess you'll have experienced benefits before when you had a 90 day abstain... although I know what you mean about forgetting why you abstained.

90 days is where I'm currently at now, and for me the main benefit is a sense of well-being because I'm not continuously feeling the compulsion to p/m. That really is a big deal for me, I feel free of it. I have more energy too, and am less irritable and tired.

As for going back to masturbation... I don't know... right now I have no intention to, partly because I don't have a strong desire for it, but also because I don't know if I could control it and I might well end up back doing compulsive p/m. For me, the current benefits are outweighing the brief pleasure that masturbation holds - it's just not worth the risk.

I also get compulsive with sugar and caffeine - I haven't sorted those yet.

time_for_change

I'm a monk ;)

No to both of those too... my wife hasn't wanted sex for a few years now and I'm not inclined to push... it may be something that returns in time, but I'm leaving it for her to instigate. My freedom from compulsive p/m has resulted in more bonding behaviours occurring naturally, which has been good :)

time_for_change

Yes, a juicy

bonding behavior can be a lot more nourishing than intercourse with a partner who "isn't there," or is in pain due to hormonal changes or whatever. And...it's good to stay open to all possibilities. Smile

I just had a very intense conversation with a dear friend in Europe in her late 60s who has discovered her 70+ husband is utterly hooked on Internet porn...and lying about it even in the face of hard evidence. (She's now having flashbacks and retching as a result of some of the stuff she saw during her investigation.)

She has noticed the negative changes in his demeanor/health/emotional distance from her and from intimacy/desire to blame others for things, over the last 10 years. Viagra is disappearing out of the medicine cabinet, too.... Classic.

The Porn Tsunami is taking out men of all ages and social classes at an amazing pace.

As she's a brilliant woman and a trained counselor, I've enlisted her to help with the forthcoming wiki project(s) for women who find themselves in her situation, or worse, who have been exploited personally.

I want to thank the courageous men here again. What you have learned/are learning about rewiring the brain is going to be very helpful in assisting women to learn to move beyond their "rage storms," too. Obviously, if the sexes are to reunite, both sides have to be willing to move on. It's tough to stop activating a brain pathway that offers "a fleeting sense of satisfaction," but when it's hurting us, it is surprisingly helpful to "abstain" for a, while nurturing ourselves with a list of limbic-balancing activities. I think we can use a lot of the tools you guys have uncovered over the last few years.

What a lesson for all of us in how to rewire and balance the brain, eh? Could be a short cut to inner mastery. In the end, we may all be grateful for the kick in the butt. More soon...and thanks for bearing with me recently as I learned things I really needed to learn with the help of others here. I hope they will translate into the beginnings of a path we can then all help to construct via the wiki.

70+ ...I'm quite amazed, it

70+ ...I'm quite amazed, it just shows how strong the addiction can be. I hope your friend and her husband can work their way through it.

I think that would have been me in 30 years time if I hadn't arrived here at reuniting.

time_for_change

He's really

a lovely man, too. I hate to think of someone like that dying at the hands of his enraged wife. Wink

Joking aside, I hate to think of what he must be going through, too.

Thanks for the data, Light

I don't know whether stopping masturbation completely is realistic, except possibly if you're in a monastery where temptation is absent and you have lots of techniques for producing balance, easing stress and feeling good in other ways: friendly companionship of others, spiritual practices, selfless service, healthy food, exercise, etc.

Best results for stabilizing may be through karezza with a partner. For more: http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/what_is_karezza

I plan on stopping

I plan on stopping masturbation completely. I will let you know I how it goes as I progress. I am doing well for now. I think it is possible to go without masturbation. we will see.

Porn

Porn definitely has no place in a healthy life. If you give that up it will be a lot easier to regulate a healthy sexual life. Porn is pretty much garbage though, the sooner you get of that the better.

Positive effects?

what kind of positive effects can I expect in the weeks that will come? I am now on my day 7. Or will it take as long as 2-3 months before I can feel the benefits from quitting porn and reducing masturbation?
Can I watch sexual pictures of women with clothes on during my recovery period as long as I am not masturbating? Or should I avoid getting horny?

Stimulation

During my many attempts at abstaining from p/m, I still allowed some sexual fantasies to run through my head... these attempts never got past 3/4 weeks. For my current abstinence (90ish days) I stopped allowing any fantasies, trying to stay aware and catch them as they arose and not pursue them - I think this has been a big help. Once I hit 5/6 weeks there was a major shift in my experience (the 'reboot'), and abstaining stopped being an almost impossible fight, and turned into something I'm choosing to do, and doing with relative ease (compared to the first 5 weeks).

So I think initially any sexual stimulation, however mild compared to internet porn, will just make abstaining tougher. Having said that, I'm currently finding myself mentally following some fantasies but it isn't causing a subsequent problem with urges to masturbate, so perhaps if you aim to get to the 'reboot' stage (however many weeks that is for you) you could allow some stimulation again. Always remember that we each go through this differently, so it's important to be aware and do what seems right for you.

Good luck,
time_for_change

2-3 weeks

You'll feel different around 2 or 3 weeks. After 7 days youre usually still in withdrawals though there are still times when you could get a few glimpses of good feelings.

You should probably avoid getting horny if you can as it will raise dopamine.

Thank you

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

What I notice is that I havent experienced any serious withdrawal syptoms yet. Maybe abit lazier than normal, and abit feeling of meaninglessness.
And some flashbacks from porn scenes. Well now I notice that I remember awful lot of scenes from the porn movies Wink

So I am suprised when reading about people who really have a hard time not to m/p. Maybe I have not been as addicted as I supposed?
Or maybe people are very different? In my case I watched porn because I enjoyed it, and I have no problem stopping it if I decide to stop. So I am able to make a choice to watch or not.

When you are talking about the "reboot" or "recover", is it something I will notice? Last time I wasnt p/m for 90 days it didnt notice any special shift in my behavior, relationship with others, etc etc... :(. Still I was shy and anti sosial. Is this normal?
Maybe I have too much expectations to what I will achieve from this. But I want to realise my potential that I have, and I want to change. I am not satisfied with my life at the moment.

This time I will track my experiences during my new try on no p/m

People are different

People are definitely different in their recovery. I think you are right though, some people were just more addicted than others. Some people have built so much shame and fear into their addictive cycle that it can be difficult to stop. Our brains and how we deal with the world are pretty complex and varied. It might be that addictions can only be defined by a person's personal relationship to the stimulant and not to the frequency they are engaged in it. There is a lot going on. If you dont have an addiction to worry about, you might be able to enjoy the positive benefits of pair bonding with someone a lot easier. Either way, I admire your curiosity and desire to explore this area despite you not having identified yourself as "addicted". I can imagine that you would benefit from the break from the porn images though. At least it seems like you would be able to be emotionally closer and present with more people without it. But its interesting, Id be really interested in hearing your experience with this.

Yes I will

Report my experiences during my p/m withdrawal. I can say that in the last years I have been having anxiety in many situations. I also have social anxiety and often feel myself uncomforable when talking with new people. Feels like I cant really connect with them, even tough I talk with them,
Especially girls. I am not very eager to socialize, but still I want to meet the "right girl" for me. I tend to have problems with connecting with new people. I lack goals in life, and fear is what limiting my potential. My energy levels also varies quite much during one day.

I have trouble getting horny on real girls, compared to the "porn girls" seems like I need alot more stimulation from the real girls, to make me as horny as from the "porn girls". I seldom get as horny when having sex with a real girl, compared to watching porn :(
My erection is not as stiff as I want it to be during intercourse, and it happens sometimes that I almost loose erection during some short breaks in sex or during foreplay. So I must admit that sex can be boring for me compared to watching porn, and I know it shouldnt be like that.

So It will be interesting to see if there will be any changes during my break from p/m
BTW I have already noticed some improvements in my sosial skill after 7 days of no p/m. More social and positive towards people.

Day 13

Starting to feel better and better.

Positive:
I have noticed that I am more social and confident.
Look people more in the eyes.
I am less tired in the morning
More happy with my life
Less nervous and anxious
Less craving for food
In general better mood
Voice is stronger and I believe more in what I am saying

Negative

Mood is changing fast. sometimes very happy other times feeling life is meaningless./boring
Starting to get addicted to spend money
Enery levels are changing fast. Suddenly get very tired.

This kind of feedback

is really helpful to others. Congratulations on your progress.

Fluctuating mood is normal during recovery...and it's especially unnerving when you're used to controlling your anxiety with something as intense as porn.

My thought is that when we choose the behaviors that recalibrate our dopamine levels, it's almost like letting go of a pendulum that has been fixed at one extreme. It will swing back and forth a bit before it rests in the center.

And it's also normal for the brain to look for other sources of dopamine rushes. Unfortunately, spending is one. Hey! At least you're not gambling. Wink

There's a whole list of feel good activities here: http://www.reuniting.info/node/2058 Feel free to add the ones that work best for you.

I think it's good to be gentle with yourself when you buy something you don't need, but to also do your best to steer for the healthier ways of feeling good.

Pendulum

Yes, it seems to work that way. Very good days and very bad days to the extreme. This will happen until we find balance. You are probably going to try to find another way to Jack up that dopamine. Careful on this. It's easy to feel like we've got a handle on one thing when we've exchanged it for another. Be aware of how you feel throughout all of this and be honest with yourself and these things won't creep up on you. If you can, try to get addicted to some "top line" behaviors, behaviors that truly feed your mind and your life goals. It's a bit of a compromise until we're healthy and stable enough to address some of these underlying problems, or until we are able to find a supportive partner. Good top line 'obsessions' are things like career, exercise, recovery work, diet, things that you know are going to support your efforts. I've kind of become a bit of a self help junkie over the past year or so, but I've also been in a pretty dark space, so I'll take it. It's a temporary thing until balance is regained and the general deeper obsessive tendencies are resolved.

Nice

I am spending more on online shopping, but atleast I am buying something useful. training equipment and new shoes.
But I notice that I get a "rush" from searching and buying online.
I will soon reduce that.

I want to meet a nice girl that fits me. Problem is that I am shy and not so social. Today I was at a party at a club with lots of attractive girls. I am sure many of them are avaiable, but I dont dare to go to talk with them and I also have problems with dancing on the dancefloor. I think its embarresing.
I want to overcome this fear and shyness, but I am not sure how. Didnt really feel 2 weeks of no p/m helped me here. But I noticed that I was not needy and that I went home happy even tough I didnt talk with any girls. Normally I would feel depressed.
In my daily life I seldom meet girls, because of my work and activies. So it really up to me to make things happen.
I feel that if I dont take action I will probably be single rest of my life. ahh I get a bad feeling when I am writing this sentence:(
Any advice how I can become more social and outgoing and less fearful when I talk with women? exept quitting porn :)

I wish I had the answer. It

I wish I had the answer. It sounds like I wrote that. Good news for you is that you are further along than me. I still would have trouble going to the party. Have you been on the dance floor ? If so then you are way ahead of me there too. I would not even get close. That feeling of embarrassment would just overwhelm me. I have never danced and do not see that changing any time soon. I know how you feel about being single the rest of ones life. I get that feeling a lot too.

We should look on the positive side though. We are trying. We are healing our addictions and we will be much better off for it. If you learn the answers to your questions let me know :). I will do the same.

wishing you well
James

Shyness

Shyness is a core thing that I have struggled with for a long time too. If spent a lot of time over the years isolated because my social skills were so terrible and I had such low self esteem. And if I was with a girl, I never wanted to go out with her and most of the time she would be the same way (suffocating relationships). After many years of avoiding "healthy dating" I figured that I needed to learn how to because I was trying to date women and either I was too shy to approach women or the messed up ones would find me. I can definitely relate though.

The first thing you probably want to do is tho STOP CARING. Take care of your own life and forge your own path and the right woman will be happy to join you. When we are seeking, its not attractive and its weak. Women are biologically programmed to seek a mate who can carry their own and are confident in themselves. To undo your tendencies will take some rewiring and some time, but the outcome will be ideal. Ultimately, you want to do the things that are good because they are GOOD FOR YOU, not because they will get you a girlfriend. Its a big personal paradigm shift, but its crucial in empowering yourself and taking charge of your life.

It also sounds like you care too much about what other people think of you, especially women. You have to push through this eventually and not be afraid to take chances. A way a lot of shy guys try to manage their anxieties and insecurities is to try to make the world safe around them by controlling how other people see them. This is A WASTE OF ENERGY because it will drive you nuts. You cannot control the way other people think of you and you can spend the rest of your life trying to come across as the person you want to come across as and have 0 effect. Actually, we have the opposite effect. When you switch this compulsion of trying to make the world safe to empowering yourself, you accomplish a lot more. Plus, women dont want a 'safe guy' (unless they're messed up, which they will get tired of the safe guy eventually), they want someone that is their own person and willing and able to confront an unpredictable and changing world. Managing your anxieties by controlling other people's perceptions of you hasnt worked in the past for you and will never work.

Be lucky and grateful that you are single and not in an unhealthy relationship with kids. You have hope! Yes, and no porn of course will help you to start facing these underlying anxieties and depressions.

The effects of no porn can be subtle if you werent really addicted to it. A lot of guys here that were addicted in a strong way see a big difference because it was the source of our addiction and freeing ourselves from that even temporarily was like growing wings, especially at first. But the downside of porn for even non addicted people can have an affect on a person's romantic life. For one thing, it screws with our natural ability to be intimate and present with other people. We spend all of this time looking at boobs and vaginas and it affects the way that we see women. Plus, if there's any lingering subconscious shame, fear, or other negative emotion, then it can weigh on you in social situations.

Becoming sociable and interactive will just take practice and "exposure therapy" too, but if you start getting at the root of this by addressing your issues and anxieties on a personal level, you will start to find a lot of these issues disappear and then you can start dealing with all the problems of having a girlfriend (joking, you take care of this stuff, you'll have a lot less problems when you do find a lady).

Also, how's your relationships with your male friends? Thats probably one of the best places to start in learning how to relate and build confidence in social situations. Dont feel like you will be alone forever, not true, this is reversible.

This is exactly what I am going through

[quote]
Shyness is a core thing that I have struggled with for a long time too. If spent a lot of time over the years isolated because my social skills were so terrible and I had such low self esteem.
[/quote]
This is exactly what I am going through. Thank you for this post.
I think this is my problem:
[quote]
A way a lot of shy guys try to manage their anxieties and insecurities is to try to make the world safe around them by controlling how other people see them.
[/quote]
It's really nice to interact with someone who has overcome the same problems you are fighting with :)

problems with dancing...

1. Catch the eye of someone you'd like to dance with.
2. Ask "Would you like to dance"?
3. If "no," say in a cheerful and friendly way "No problem" and go back to step 1. If "yes," head out to the floor, and say, "Oh, by the way, I don't know how to dance. Would you teach me?"
4. Enjoy yourself!

People (myself definitely included) tend to get hung up about admitting that they don't know something. The simplest cure, I've found, is simply to admit that you don't know and ask someone.

Toastmasters (mentioned in this thread http://www.reuniting.info/node/2106) is a great confidence builder, if you feel nervous about steps 1 and 2.

Thanks

Thanks both of you. Great tips. I can relate to what you are writing dirtyangel32. I am too concerned about what people think of me and I am afraid of doing or being different than others. (especially when its visible to others).
In communication and relationship with women I am not being myself. I have a tendency to try to please and I am afraid to make her upset etc..
I think I am giving away my personal power in many situations. I`ve had a hard time during school and work with bullying. Later on I struggled with depression and then anxiety. For a long period of time in my life I felt I couldnt trust anyone, espesially guys. I think this is because of the bad things that happened me during my time in school.

I am now feeling better and starting to recover from this, but still I think the bad memories are in my subcounsius. Therefore I dont feel really comfortable with other guys. I am trying everything to improve myself (self help things), but I must admit that to road is long and hard.

I know my story is not unique and many many others have experienced the same thing. And I know its up to me to take action and make things change. I dont think no one else can

Guys

I can relate to not feeling comfortable with other guys too. I have always sought to be around girls whether it was in a relationship or I had some attraction and they kept me around because they liked the attention, or I kept them around because they had an attraction and it made me feel good about myself, or whatever. A lot of the time I would be confined to the friend zone. For some reason, all of this was a lot more natural and acceptable than the pain and uncertainty I would feel around other guys. But there is a difference between being around immature and insecure competitive guys and real guys that embrace their masculinity. Its no wonder we felt repulsion from men, especially when we were around young guys growing up. Kids can be cruel, but its just insecurity and tyranny on their parts. The tyrant is always the most insecure and what better way to handle your insecurity than to push it onto someone else.

I found these guys who were into embracing their masculinity when I started going to 12 step groups and it opened many doors. Not having a father I was already at a disadvantage, so when I met these guys, I latched on like no tomorrow. Fortunately, there are many men that have these good qualities, and most men as we get older have started to figure out what has happened, or they were brought up with these qualities. In other words, it seems to be more of a problem with unruly youths, especially in our culture.

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

Check out this forum. Its all guys that are confronting this. It will also help with the porn thing too. Its recommended by the author to stop the use of porn, so these practices are congruent. Hang in there, its a lot of heavy work with all of these new paradigms, but imagine never knowing about any of these things!

nice to see people have goals to work towards with that.

The way i see p/m for me is that it was a way to cope with stresses in my life especially with the fact in society theres alot of older generations that are so conservative and just not understanding, my experiences with woman especially at a young age opened me up to seeing things i wouldnt readily understand perhaps it is why i reserve myself just a little bit but being passive and in not showing my own emotion I dont get hurt. I love how all of you come here and talk of these things many of you are those older generations and its nice to know theres hope for change yet to come, i thought of a starting a blog about my recovery but i think thats something i need to do on my own i feel i understand im attached to whats not real its what triggers p/m i see everything here its not real for me though these things are for yourselves being on a computer or not interacting with people on another level does this.

I wish you well LIGHT in improving your life and your understanding of yourself.
Im most probably not in the best position to be giving the advice you need but perhaps i can lay down some insight.
I remember hearing a proverb which i think is really just great, i think youll see this is all just your journey your highs and your lows its all apart of your life. If you had everything if you were flawless what would there be left to achieve, dont let any of these things keep you from moving along. =D

Life, the journey is your reward.

Nice proverb,

but I got a little lost in the rest of your post. It would help me if you can break your thoughts into sentences. On the other hand, if you're not really looking for interaction, and just need to emote, that's fine, too. Wink

yes i cant keep it

yes i cant keep it structured, throwing everything out there doesnt work but its always an attempt simple characters cant express everything, nice emoticon at the end there

attractivness

I wonder if any of you have noticed any changes in how attractive girls find you after quitting p/m for some time?
Are you viewing them more as a person rather than a object?
Do you think average looking girls are looking better after quitting p/m?
Are you able to communicate better with girls?
More horny and willing to flirt with girls?

answers

[quote=light]I wonder if any of you have noticed any changes in how attractive girls find you after quitting p/m for some time?[/quote]
Not much change.. it is better because I look more confident & stable
[quote]
Are you viewing them more as a person rather than a object?
[/quote]
No .. I never viewed them as a person.
Most of the good looking girls are dumb ( Or they become dumb) & we don't find any interest in bad looking girls!
I don't know if it's just the issue with me, but the only girls I like (In non-sexual way, as a person) are very intelligent & even if they are good looking (Which is rare combination) I find them out of my league.. this really frustrates me! :(
[quote]
Do you think average looking girls are looking better after quitting p/m?
[/quote]
Definitely yes (The BIG "yes!")
[quote]
Are you able to communicate better with girls?
More horny and willing to flirt with girls?[/quote]
Yes & yes!

some thouhts

[quote=light]I wonder if any of you have noticed any changes in how attractive girls find you after quitting p/m for some time?
Are you viewing them more as a person rather than a object?
Do you think average looking girls are looking better after quitting p/m?
Are you able to communicate better with girls?
More horny and willing to flirt with girls?[/quote]

I agree with anonymous on a few things. I made myself go out yesterday. Even with my mental state not very good.

viewing women differently
I tried to view women as people even in the depths of my porn addiction. Not sure I was successful while in it. Now 60 days without porn I can say yeah I view women much better now. I do not stare with sexual thoughts now. I look at the person now. Hard to describe I think. It is a supple shift in my thinking. I still find women beautiful. That has not changed. I have always been attracted to women. Not one type but women in general.

"average" looking
Mmm continuing from the above. Yes and no. I have always looked at women no matter their looks and found something attractive about them. Also no matter how "beautiful" a women might be I can find something to through me off even if it is just a "feeling". Now all of this is real women. Those images on the screen you do not get any emotion or feeling from them. Well you have your own. You just do not get any energy from them and what they are like. Real women you get this. It is a big difference. So yeah I find what people would call average just as attractive as any other women. I guess I am not as hooked on looks now too. Maybe I am changing in this respect more than I thought. It is hard to look at porn women all day and not get programmed for a certain look.

OK I will go into it a bit more. I have not really been that attractive to thin women. When I mean thin I mean the ones that are 5'6"+ and maybe 100lbs. That just does not look healthy to me :). Well there are a lot of these in porn and modelling. It did not matter to the addicted mind really. It was enough and what it "needed" "wanted" so you just go with it. I guess what I am saying is what is average looking ? everyone's taste is different. Porn can distort that though. You will look at things and use types of porn that you are not really attracted too. I am sure my "taste" will change the further I get away from porn. I can see it already. It is a better way to be.

Also by all accounts using the BBs makes a big difference in how you perceive your partner. So I am going to not try and get caught up in looks. I think I have shifted there now. I know my mind was stuck in looks for long time while using porn everyday. I am slowly getting away from that.

Do I communicate with women more ?
Well I do have my friend I talk to by email and phone. I do not think that is what you were asking though. but for me that is a big step. I never talked to a women in such a way before. So I think I am taking big steps here. Now as far as what I think you are asking. I think maybe a little. I still have difficulty. I am not even close to being able to approach a women. Or even start a conversation or even know how to meet a women. So I am still dealing with this a lot. I let my addiction isolate me so much it is going to take some time for me to work through this issue. Do I see positives and movement in the right direction. Yes I see improvement. I can see me getting there now. I did not have a chance while stuck in m/p/o.

more horny willing to flirt with girls ?
I think I have described a little of this before. The longer I go without p/m/o the more I have a desire to be with a women. So I can see this pushing me to get way outside my comfort zone. Or I should say come out of hiding and isolation. I think it will still take a bit more time. So yeah I think you will become more willing to interact with women as you stay away from all of those things. I am not sure horny is the right word. The need for connection increases a lot. need of bonding ? not sure what word to use here. I do know the want of a partner increases a lot.

well some of my thoughts on those questions I hope they are at least a little helpful.
Be Safe
James

failed

Got a visit from a close female friend, and we ended up in bed. So I am on day 2 now. But I havent watched any porn, so I am happy with that.

thanks

It was really nice and we enjoyed our time together and were touching and taking it slowly. I actually didnt want to come, but the temptation was so huge. My goal was 2 months without M. I have slipped a couple of times after the time I spent with her.

While cuddling with her I noticed some different things from last time I had sex with her. Now I was more patient, not in a rush. I was not so eager to just please her and forgot about myself, which I did before. Now we where more equal, and I just followed the flow, without planning what to do next.

I have noticed a increased horniness after my orgasm. More than during my time without p/m.

But I feel so much better and more balanced after quitting the porn. Never going back to porn. I hope all scenes from the porn movies one they will be forgotten or erased from my memory :)

This

"mini-binge" pattern that many of you report when you *do* orgasm intrigues me. Maybe its built in because it improved chances of conception (seeing as women are usually more eager for sex around ovulation).

Any thoughts?

1 week.

1 week now without masturbation now. 2 months without watching porn. I have no surge for watching porn now. Even not masturbating.

Hey!

Congratulations. Getting unhooked from porn is huge. What are you doing that helps? Any exercise, socializing, or other tips? Any other changes in your life? What are you doing with all your free time? Wink

hey

yea I feel myself totally unhooked from watching porn. What I did was: Reading and watching as much material that says that porn is harmful to watch. This has made me convinced that I wont go back to it. Only watching one video or article about the harmful effects of porn didnt help me. I probably need to occasionally get reminded about the benefits of quitting porn and harmful effects of watching so that I dont get back into the porn.

I am exercising regurarly. physical training. I am also taking some herbs, dont know if that helps. I am trying to be more sosial, but not any huge difference in how sosial I am. (but maybe I dont recognise this so much myself)
I have also got a female friends I have reguratly contact with.

I have noticed that when i have a hard time at work or in school or in life in generall, then its easy to self medicate myself with porn. So I am careful not to slip into porn even if I am having a hard time.

I didnt spend massive amount of time on porn. maybe maximum 1 hour pr day. So I cant feel I have got much more time for other activities :)
But i definately feel more balanced and less compulsive.

I think the education thing was the reason why I have no lust after porn.

qestions: How long time can it take before my memories of porn scenes and images dissapears from my brain/memory? I want to be free of those memories.

I think my years with porn affected my sexual taste. That means that I only get really turned on by hot girls and that I need something extreme when I am having sex with a girl. sort of fetish. If you know what I mean. I think I almost on autopilot are trying to do the same things which I saw the guys was doing in the porn movies.
Is it possible to rewire my brain back, so it can get turned on by a "normal" looking girl, and normal sensual sex?
How long time can this take? and can I do something to increase the speed of the healing?

Good tips

I hadn't thought of the importance of repetition when your brain is trying to integrate a new perspecive, but it makes perfect sense. Want to add it to one of the wikis on recovery?

The Start and Continuance of Recovery and Withdrawal
http://www.reuniting.info/node/3254

How Others Have Recovered from Porn Use
http://www.reuniting.info/node/3228

You ask good questions, and I hope that as you figure out the answers, you share them. I'm not sure there are standard answers to those questions. First, everyone's brain is different. Second, it looks like falling in love can speed the re-wiring process. Read the material in the second half of these excerpts from Doidge's "The Brain That Changes Itself." http://www.reuniting.info/node/1808 As he explains, oxytocin seems to be the the neurochemical that "erases" past attachments and helps you form new ones.

This suggests that as you get closer to a woman, her image and behavior is likely to "blot out" your past attachments. In other words, instead of trying to make the women in your life match your fantasies...engage in lots of touch, eye contact and other bonding behaviors, and see if your tastes mysteriously change. This article lists some of the behaviors that apparently help release oxytocin. http://www.reuniting.info/lazy_way_to_stay_in_love

Good luck. Let us know if you make any breakthroughs.

hard days

10 days and then I masturbated again :(
Was extremely horny and wanted to relase the pressure. I had somewhat control and I made the decision myself.

The same night I had a nightmare. I dreamt about my time in the army (not in US). Maybe there is a relationship with my M and my nightmare?

I was in the army 8 years ago. It was a really hard time for me. I was depressed and had low self esteem when I was called in and it just got more worse in the army. Felt that I was going to have a nervous breakdown. I got very easily stressed and the army is not a good place for me at that time. This lasted for many months before i was able to get more calm. I really wanted to quit but I was so afraid that I didnt dare to tell anyone that I wanted to go home.

I finished the army and was happy. But in the years later I have been struggeling with depression and anxiety. I think it might have something to do with what happened in the army. I think that hard period in the army has influenced me negatively.

I think I forced myself/brain to neglect the bad feelings from the army. I dont think about it in my daily life and I have never told anyone how bad I actuelly experienced it. But I have noticed that when I have nighmares its about my time in the army usually.

So now after my nightmare I have been feeling depressed and glimses from bad experiences in the army are keeping me awake in the night.

I am not sure how I can overcome this bad experience or if it actually possible to overcome it.

Any advice: NLP? meditation? talk to someone about it? trying to forget it?

Check out the hypnosis wiki

you could record a version of it for yourself...with words about letting go of the experience or something. Or ask, and maybe someone here would record it for you. (I'm away from home, but could do it when I get back.) http://www.reuniting.info/node/3554

Congratulations on your progress. 10 days is a great start! Question...when you orgasmed, did you use fantasy or porn? It seems to be best just to enjoy the sensual feelings and avoid the "enhancements." Men here report less hangover that way.

*big hug*

thanks

I will check out the hypnosis. Tonigh I was watching motivational talk of Anthony Robbins, and that helped on my mood abit. I must try to stay positive even I am not happy with my life at the moment. Wink

10 days is ok. But my goal is 2 months. I will make it!
I didnt use any porn or fantasy when I masturbated. I was not even tempted :) Porn is no longer a part of my life. And no fantasies popped up in my head as I can remember.
so more than 2 months without porn! I am very happy with that!

congrats on 2 months without

congrats on 2 months without porn [tanz] . You sound good. Yes being able to keep fantasy and porn out of the picture does seem to help. I have been observing myself for awhile now as closely as I can. Keeping images out of it seems to lessen the effects. It does not keep all of the hangover away but it really helps with those withdrawal symptoms.

I have been trying to get more positive thoughts in my head. Someone has been helping me a little with that. It seems to be helping a great deal. Even if I do not add positive thoughts using techniques to keep the negative thoughts out of my head helps enough.

I also feel porn is not longer part of my life.

Be Safe
James

masturbation during recovery

Can it be benificial to masturbate during recovery, but without orgasm and porn/fantasies?
Or can It be harmful for the body mentally/physically to get close to orgasm and then suddenly stop?

I found this on another forum and it sounded interesting:
I think the discussion is on how to transmute your sexual energy into other forms of energy:
http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/4305-sex-transmutation-to-sti...

"You need to get horny for the energy to grow, it is a must for you to sexually stimulate yourself. Not getting horny is akin to leading the life of a eunuch priest. It simply doesn't work this way.

Read my posts again in that thread. I have mentioned the idea is "sex transmutation," not plain abstinence. To get results, you need to follow the proper protocol. Sexually stimulating yourself, and then redirecting that sexual energy gives you that "power" around women.

By not sexually stimulating yourself, you are building a dam across a dry stream. How can the damn generate electricity without water gushing through it? Don't supress your libido, rather encourage foreplay, etc., but try not to ejaculate. Ejaculation sends messages to the brain that sexual energy is depleted and hence certain chemical substances are released which "tire" a man."

Based on people's experience here,

I think there are two phases, and that different approaches work best at different times.

If you've been hooked on too much sexual stimulation then a time-out of a month or two with minimum masturbation (and no porn or fantasy) is very helpful. Once your brain is back to equilibrium, then the transmutation idea is very useful and we have a whole collection here of those "solo practices" from different traditions. (Feel free to add yours to the list...it's a wiki.)
Solo Practices
http://www.reuniting.info/node/3299

But rushing to start the transmutation with self-stimulation can be premature for some men. Don't be afraid that if you "don't use it you'll lose it." You won't "lose it" in a couple of months Wink

day 8

today I had have immense energy. Restless and almost euforic and horny. hard to sit quiet and focus, but I enjoy the feeling. Feel stronger than ever and in the gym I was lifting heavier weights than usual. I also feel abit more agressive and assertive than before. Sexual fantasies are also popping up in my head now and then. In a state like this I think I can to everything :) maybe there is a peak in testosterone or something after 1 week off?

testosterone

definitely. I am a lot more assertive and energetic having a week off too. I like being there, it feels like things are in their place and Im more of a man. When I feel weak, I feel like a boy, its disconcerting because I am the age of a man, so I should be feeling like that!

day 17

I have noticed something after day 14 and till day 17. I feel that I am more balanced now. I dont have this euforic energy, nor do I feel tired.
I feel also less anxious and thinking less anxious thougts. I have no idea if this is because of other things or because of 17 days without orgasm.

yes

It is interesting. I will for sure be aware of how my mood and everything will be the next day. I feel these days that I am living in the present. not woorying about the future or thinking about the past. I have also noticed that I have got really cozy with my female friends and that I am loving towards them. Like I really feel contected to them and have deep understanding and feelings for them. It feels great.

Maybe the

sexes aren't so out of sync after all, eh? Smile Gary and I have noticed some of the same things. And it's almost like we are both more masculine and more feminine...and able to switch back and forth more fluidly, depending upon what traits are most suitable in a particular situation.

In the bedroom though, we keep to the Daoist "he's the pilot and I'm the boat" concept. Wink

I'm glad you're enjoying the new you. Hope one of those ladies latches onto you! Maintaining abstinence indefinitely on your own doesn't work so well as a rule...unless you're in an ashram or something.

Balancing

Thats interesting that you both feel more of both and are more "fluid" in switching from them. I kind of notice the same thing too. Especially after a good length of time. Things just feel "in place" with my roles. Im able to respond better in the moment with women. Of course, there are the highs and the lows, but that feeling is more common. I think I felt the balance for about 20 minutes today. I want more.

Equlibrium

Is it correct that the brain can reach a equilibrium after about two months without p/m/o ?
Is this equlibrium different than what happens after 14 days?
Will I be able to notice that I have reach some kind of equilibrium? How does that feel? what kinds of feelings or lack of feelings will give tell me that I have reached a equlibrium?
What is the scientific explanation of the 2 months equlibrium?

Interesting

question. From the feedback from the different people posting their experiences here, it seems like each has a different experience with this. However, most will report some kind of noticeable shift by at least three weeks. It might also depend on how out of whack we were to begin with, whether or not we are involved in another dopamine tampering behavior, and how much we are engaged in top line behaviors that increase the oxytocin. Not to mention we are just wired differently and its possible that some people havent identified certain dopamine-raising behaviors as being a part of their cycle (like fantasy). So there are a lot of factors.

But it seems pretty consistent that around the two week mark, there is some difference. Like Im at day 18. I feel like crap today, but I also feel strong in my core. Im used to feeling crappy, but having this other kind of strength is something that I wasnt used to before trying this. I also felt this feeling the other times Ive abstained.

The best way that I can explain the glimpses of equilibrium that I have experienced is that I feel like my old self before I became heavily addicted. I feel more engaged with the world, normal, fresh. I feel like a heavy weight is lifted when Im like that. My thoughts are clearer, Im more balanced in general. My depression isnt as present. Im not this anxious mess. Its pretty much worth it for me to keep trying at this, well, plus there really is no choice at this point because porn and meaningless orgasm with strangers has very little appeal.

The 14 day/2 month difference might be that the 14 day has some direct physiological bearing while the 2 month mark might have some more subtle cognitive bearing. It always feels like the two week mark is just the start! Thats when it seems like Im starting to handle some of the deeper emotional and mental components of my addiction. Maybe two months is how long it takes to form and get into the habit of better thinking. Not sure, there's so much to learn about this stuff.

Cycles, recovery

The 14-day cycle appears to naturally follow orgasm. For a recent discussion about this, see: http://www.reuniting.info/node/3652

The two-months is a reference to addiction recovery and the protein Delta FosB, which clears out of the brains of addicted rats after a month or two (also from the brains of those with behavioral addictions). I was intrigued by this information because the first man who recovered from porn addiction on this site did so after about 6 weeks of no p/m/o. For more on Delta FosB, see: http://www.reuniting.info/node/3007#comment-14652 and http://www.reuniting.info/node/1808 (it's down a ways)

Is it correct that it will

Is it correct that it will take longer time before my brain will "reboot" if I masturbate during recovery but without orgasm?
During my 20 day period of no porn and no orgasm, I have been masturbating without porn/orgamsn. But this make me feel abit worried since I read somewhere it can prolong the recovery time.

I have noticed during this time that I have had many fantasies in my head. not during masturbation but other times during the day. I cant remember I had so many fantasies during my last 90 days recovery. (then I didnt masturbate at all)

What I remember after my 90 days with no p/m/o was that my penis was very sensitive to touching. It was a great feeling. During times of frequent masturbation my penis has been not sensitive at all, and I could barely get orgasm without looking at porn. Can this be a sign on how long you have come in the recovery process?

90 days is a long time, good

90 days is a long time, good job. My experience has been that the fantasy makes it a lot harder for me. It triggers some longings and cravings. The longings pull out some sadness for me because then I feel alone and unhappy being on my own and unhappy with myself. I guess its a matter of figuring it out for yourself. Pay attention to how you feel the days after. In general, porn/fantasy just raises dopamine. Fantasy during sexual recovery is akin to a morphine drip to a recovering heroin addict. Figure out why you are going into fantasy. What does it do for you?

My fantasies are me doing

My fantasies are me doing things to girls which I have seen in the porn movies. The fantasies make me frustrated and unconsentratet and also abit unhappy. I will stop masturbating now, even tough I dont do orgasms when I am masturbating. Maybe that will help on my fantasies that is popping up in my head all the time.

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