♥My Karezza Experience (old thread)

Submitted by Sid on
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So I am going to start a new thread today because my old thread was primarily about giving up masturbation and right now that issue seems like a distant memory. After a couple of false starts (explained below) my wife and I started karezza sex this past weekend.

For starters, I really have to give my wife a name for purposes of this blog. I hate typing "my wife" because it just sounds too possessive and impersonal, like she somehow doesn't have her own identity other than being "my wife." Hotspring previously dubbed her the "Lovely Woman" which I like a lot, primarily because I think she is the loveliest woman on the planet. But typing that out could get tedious as well, so I think for simplicity, I'll just refer to her as "Nancy."

The "false start" occurred because initially I wasn't clear with Nancy about what I wanted. She won't read Cupid's Arrow because she doesn't want an instruction manual. Nancy dislikes the idea of following a "script" or "formula." So initially we had an understanding that we were trying to incorporate karezza practices into lovemaking, but once I made the decision to avoid orgasm, I really should have communicated this to her directly. Instead, I just hinted about it and for two successive nights she pursued the old "goal" and drove me to orgasm.

That was actually a good learning experience for me because I really noticed the Coolidge effect. In particular, I was very aware of how intense and enjoyable the experience was pre-orgasm and how suddenly it dropped off afterward. I also noticed how continuing to employ karezza techniques really did help counteract those effects to some degree.

After that, I came clean about what I wanted, and Nancy was very cooperative. We decided that if it happened, it was no big deal, but it wasn't what we were going for. As a result, we just had an incredible weekend.

Another big concern I had was how were we going to know when to stop. Neil's posts on this issue last week were very helpful and timely. We found that the process did ultimately run its course. We were amazed how we lost track of time and that an hour or two could go by before we knew it. Ultimately fatigue started to be our guide. Knowing that I needed a full night's sleep for the work week, we agreed to curtail our interaction last night. We had moderate success in doing so! It still feels like we are honeymooners who just can't keep our hands off one another.

One of the other interesting discoveries was that after two days I was very aware that the Coolidge Effect was not kicking in. In the past, if we had intercourse, two nights was the max and then I definitely wanted some distance. It was very noticeable to me that this wasn't happening.

I'm amazed by the level of intimacy and connectedness that we have achieved and that it seems to be completely sustainable. I certainly believe that it can be.

One last observation I made concerned the build up sexual tension. In the past, when I experienced built up sexual tension I would look for a way to try to relieve it. This usually led to me fondling myself and ultimately masturbation and orgasm. In the first two weeks when I was simply trying not to masturbate, I still ended up fixating on my genitals and stimulating myself, although not to orgasm. Now this energy can take a totally different direction. I really have no desire to self-satisfy. Instead, I think about our Karezza experiences and that energy seems to re-distribute throughout my entire body. All I want to do is save it and direct it toward our next experience. I particularly notice the flow of energy to my lips and chest and heart. It's just a warm full feeling that feels really nice.

Someone previously commented that I was a "quick study." That may be true, but I also think that after several years of personal and relationship work, this website came to my attention at just the right time. I am a complete convert! Thanks all for your shared wisdom and particularly for Marnia for your encouragement! -Sid

Comments

Great Job

Nancy sounds just like my Sweetie! Now that you are off and running, please stick around! We need mentors for others. People need to see that this works. Old posts are old, they need someone to respond to them now, that yes, this does work! I am so happy for you both!

Stubborn women!

*shakes head laughing* Guess this is why the Daoists taught that "the men are the pilots and the women are the boats." Wink Seriously, though, from my perspective there's nothing more delicious than a good pilot.

This post needs to go into the wisdom pool.

My partner doesn't read here but I will send it on to him. 2 things stand out - a real "time frame" (hours!) and the observation of the disconnect afterwards when an O occurs.

My partner and I are abnormally close (joined at hip some have said Wink ), and honeymoon feelings have been there most of the time. The disconnect for me is subtle, and goes away within minutes, but now that I notice it, I want to avoid it entirely. But I suspect that is not the case for my partner, but until he can observe it and identify it, he won't believe it himself. That's the case for every one. I didn't think I was affected at all, until I really observed the change at the very moment it happened.

Quizure

"There's this place in me where your fingerprints still rest, your kisses still linger, and your whispers softly echo. It's the place where a part of you will forever be a part of me." - Gretchen Kemp

Identifying a False Friend - The Big O

I am just floored by the fact that I have always been blind to the effects of O. Once I did recognize those effect, it gave me an even bigger motivation to pursue this course. I'm just floored by the fact that for 30 years I've been pursuing O as the goal toward sexual satisfaction and contentment and I never knew that it was a false promise. Our society (and to some degree our biological programming) really does a number on us.

This past weekend I found myself in a constant state of wonder and I found myself repeatedly saying to myself on multiple occasions, "I'll be damned!" (Not literally of course, to the contrary I feel really blessed).

Having now seen The Big O for what it is, I realize that I'm still going to have to live with the big phony. It will probably drop by from time to time unannounced and uninvited. But I'm certain I'll be a lot less susceptible to its false charms.

Inspiring to read

This caught my eye:

[quote=Sid]
One of the other interesting discoveries was that after two days I was very aware that the Coolidge Effect was not kicking in. In the past, if we had intercourse, two nights was the max and then I definitely wanted some distance. It was very noticeable to me that this wasn't happening.
[/quote]

I always had this happen and never had a name for it before discovering this website. I'm looking forward to lots of experimenting with this stuff. Good to see that a married couple can make this happen for themselves. As a single guy looking to get into a relationship I know this is a great way to begin something and I don't feel like I'm missing anything when the sense of "lack" disappears or the indifference to my partner transforms into mutual delight in the other.

Thanks for posting.

Thanks, Sid

I'll add this thread to my collection on the "Resources" page, but I really need to find another way to highlight such discussions. Any ideas, any of you techie geniuses??

Meanwhile, I'm finally "getting it" even more why the "porn guys" (as I affectionately refer to some of you) have been here. It's so inspiring to see that some of you who have really struggled with that challenge can find such contentment with karezza.

It makes perfect sense to me. I already *know* that people who think karezza is "anti-sex" are completely wrong. Karezza is for people who really, really like sex. *giggle* They like it enough to like it gentle and sensual and "floaty" too.

Our current culture seems to equate "liking sex" with liking "rough, goal-oriented" sex. That has really narrowed our focus as a culture. I know it did mine. Smile It glorifies porn-style encounters and subtly paints everyone else "inadequate" and "flawed." Except that it's not clear who's missing the most pleasure.

Anyway, thanks again. I no longer feel like a "lone info-mercial" on the site. And Neil's right. It really does help to have feedback, even though it's intensely personal. It's a gift to us all.

I said

you were a "quick study" Sid and am glad to see you and "Nancy" doing well with this. It can be very liberating (was for me) to come to understand that the feelings of disconnect and "drop off" (as you put it) are caused by the effects of orgasm and not an inherent part of your makeup or personality. I spent years thinking this was just the way I was, that it was perfectly "natural" - and there was nothing that could be done about it. When I was young I could never have even considered giving up orgasm - like most men I thought that was "the" reason one had sex. Great round of applause to you for reaching this level of understanding and enlightenment. Please keep the community here updated on your progress - your experience has the potential to help many others.

Observations and Thoughts

First of all the support and positive feedback has been very welcome and encouraging. Thanks to all who responded. This is my first ever attempt at blogging and I have never experienced a support group quite like this, but I like it a lot. It seems to really work well for me.

Wanted to post an update on our success and challenges practicing Karezza, what Nancy refers to as our "experiment." Marnia had originally made the following suggestion that:

"On the other hand, we've been pleased with our consistency with karezza. Occasionally orgasm sneaks up on us, but we don't go for it. We find the orgasms useful...because we definitely notice the hangover...which motivates us to continue enjoying karezza."

I found this advice to be immensely helpful and accurate. Two nights ago I had an orgasm(O) which was a bit disappointing, as I had set my goal not to O until the end of the month, but it happened. The intensity just kept building and I kept giving in to it and finally I just couldn't help myself and went over the top. (Nancy giving me a BJ didn't help either, but she says she couldn't help herself either! Ooopsie! I'm not sure THAT's not on the list of approved K behaviors. *blush*). I noticed that it was on day 5 from my last O, which tends to be when the pressure for another O really builds.

Part of me would like to get out of the O cycle, and so I'd like to go 14 days without O, just to see what it is like. Part of me, however, is a bit concerned that after I get there, any subsequent O will just starts the whole cycle over. However, I suspect that the effects become much less intense. Certainly less so than when I was O every two or three days through masturbation.

I did notice the dramatic drop off after O as the Coolidge effect kicked in. I would gladly trade both the feeling of being driven to have an O and the Coolidge effect for more consistency in the warm fuzzy loving feelings of Karezza. This is what motivates me to try to experiment with a 14 day O free cycle. I think the lesson I learned is that when I feel I am being driven to O, I have to back off and relax and not get myself all worked up. That feeling of needing an O has got to be a reminder to go slow and carefully. Nonetheless, I did find that being sure to engage in post O Karezza really did help counter the Coolidge effect.

I'm still finding it very easy to refrain from M, which is very welcome. I've never had that before. Gads what a sense of freedom!

One other little side effect I have been having that I wanted to mention and see if anybody has been familiar with. I haven't been having blue balls so much lately (a bit after my last O), but I've been having this other sensation that my balls are full. I'm just a lot more aware of them and this "full" sensation. I don't think they are truly fuller, but I'm just very aware of this weird feeling down there. It's probably just my addict brain fixating on the old genital region and I've been trying to re-direct the energy into my body. Strange sensation anyway and I was wondering if anybody else has experience with it.

First, I want to commend you

First, I want to commend you on attempting Karezza style lovemaking. Many men would never step up to the plate like you are. Your woman is lucky to have you and you are likewise lucky to have a woman who is working with you and being supportive.We have been doing this for quite a few years and I want to assure you, that if you keep at it, you will get the hang of it. I remember feeling a lot of the same stuff you are talking about. The feeling of really badly not wanting to orgasm and then being disappointed in myself when I did, been there done that. If I may make a suggestion. When you have an orgasm, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get right back in the saddle. Dont spend any time on feeling bad about it. Focusing on not wanting to orgasm has a funny way of manifesting just that. Let me say this very clearly. YOU WILL GET THE HANG OF IT, as long as you persist. The frequency of slipping over the edge will slowly get less and less, it takes time, quite a lot of it actually. Think of how long you've been letting yourself have all the orgasms you want, not to mention telling yourself how good it is to do it. There's some serious programing that has to be rewired.

Also, Karezza style lovemaking builds energy where regular lovemaking drains it off each time. When you build energy and dont drain it off, then next time you have that much more to work with, its additive. You remind me of me and all us guys. We see something we want to do and, bang, we just want to be there doing it. Just so you know, Ive been doing this for 12 years and on rare occasions I still slip over the edge.

Full balls?, that's common. You're stimulating and vibrating a lot of sexual energy and it gets the genitals worked up. You'll get the hang of that over time as well. A couple of suggestions, after karezza when you have that full feeling, sit on the edge of a chair with your back straight, take deep in breaths and pull the energy up the spine and out of your balls. Five minutes should make a difference. Also, run cold water over your genitals, this helps as well.

You're doing great, keep it up!

Darryl

Another suggestion

Sid,

I woke up this morning and had another thought for you. I'm not real big on techniques when it comes to karezza but a tool or two in you bag can be useful especially in the beginning. My suggestion when you are lovemaking with Nancy is to really use your breath. Focus on your breathing, nice full deep breaths, especially when things start to ramp up. There are a number of benifits. First it keeps your heart rate down. Second, it helps draw and circulate the energy out of your genitals. Doing this during lovemaking will help with the "full balls" feeling afterwards and minimize the chance of "blue ball". Third, your breath is a place to put your focus which helps you from being drawn into orgasming. Keeps you soft, (I dont mean penis wise) and relaxed. Think of the breath focus as karezza training wheels.

Its wonderful to get lost in the magnificance and beauty of your woman, as a man should, but a gentle sense of control and focus will serve the both of you.

Darryl

Hey Sid

Darryl's suggestions are right on the money here and mirror my own experience in this regard. When I began experimenting with becoming non-orgasmic I had a number of "accidents" as the compulsion to ejaculate is immense (as you know). I used to beat myself up for lack of willpower, etc. As you get more practiced it will become easier as your nervous system maps out a new arousal pattern. If you are like me you will come to enjoy the increased "energy" state and elimination of the "fallout" much more than burst pattern orgasms. Once you become more acclimated the body will adjust and "blue balls" will go away. When we orgasm we usually tense up and hold our breath so remaining relaxed with slow deep breathing can help prevent accidents during high states of arousal. I found it helpful to verbalize my state of arousal and moaning/groaning acted twofold as both a "pressure relief valve" and a good "indicator" to my partner that I was close to the edge so she could reduce stimulation during critical moments (especially if she was providing "special favors"). Short term you would be better off as Marina has indicated to limit the "extracurricular overstimulating activities" then as your control improves you can slowly re-introduce these items (as you see fit) as your confidence and control increases.

birthday & new year

i find it remarkable that you started this thread on my birthday. and, my girl friend and I started practicing karezza on New Year's day. auspicious, eh?

i am happy to report that our experience with karezza is superior.

my girl friend was abused at a very early age and has suffered for over 35 years since. sex for her was a very mixed bag. while she enjoyed foreplay and orgasm, she disassociated. it was part of her coping behavior. she used masturbation as a way to temporarily release tension. as we all know from Marnia's research, orgasm was not a solution.

having experienced countless relationships that followed the script that mating behavior prescribes, i had my own dysfunctional history.

so, on New Year's eve, we consciously practiced karezza. it took a ton of her will power, but she did it and that has given her a new confidence. she nows feels empowered. self-control for her is a fantastic gift. she also is in touch with her own body & her lower chakras. we are bonding now. life is good.

thank you Marnia.

Awesome!

My first sexual experience was a result of buying into the glorified porn-style sex, I thought I was 'cool' for not expecting love or emotion. I'm amazed at the 'Coolidge' effect being described! I thought it was just a part of who I was...I'm glad it's not.
Well after abstaining for 6 months I've realised I could never go back to that kind of sex. So my next question is, where to find men who are into Karezza and understand the spiritual benefits, or who even WANT the spiritual benefits...I'm 19 and I don't think men around my age will be interested! Ah well...this site is Awesomeness!

Glad to have you on board

Yes, your generation has it tough. Lots of hype about the wonders of forced orgasm, poor quality information about the effects of sex on the brain, and porn that keeps young men (and women) riveted to their screens until normal partners just don't trip their triggers.

The good news is that the problems are becoming better known, so maybe it won't be long until people figure out that "more is not better," when it comes to overstimulation of the human brain. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get a lot better.

In any case, please start a blog if you like.

Thanks for the welcome!

Gosh a blog? I've never done one! Sounds exciting...although my sex life is pretty non existent at the moment :P
The meditation group is a great idea actually! Although I'm holding onto the 'it will come when I'm trying least' theory for now!

Also can I ask why you think it is the male to female ratio here is so large? I honestly thought this site would be much more female dominated!

Blogging here

is more like journaling, so don't be intimidated. People write about all sorts of issues relating to intimate relationships...whether or not they're in one. Winkhttp://www.reuniting.info/resources/bloggers

Hmmm...I've always received more fan mail from men than women. Not sure why. I think it's because my books help explain the post-O shift in perception that is often more obvious to men than women. Also, my books include a lot of science about sex's effects on the brain, courtesy of my curious, science-teacher husband, and men like knowing how things work. Smile

Also, many of them are just as fed up with the pointless, painful alienation between the sexes as we are.

That said, many of the men here are struggling with unhooking from porn. They now have their own special site (http://yourbrainonporn.com/about-us). But they still share a forum with us 'cause they're part of the family. Smile It's a fluke of fate that they ended up here, as we did not set out to address porn recovery. But there is so little good information on the Web about how hypersexual stimulation can throw the brain out of balance, that some of them landed here. And now we're kinda fond of them.

It's fun to watch them recover. And I'm afraid that most women your age are going to need a thorough understanding of what recovery from heavy porn use entails if they're going to work their way into healthy relationships.