Using her behavior as an excuse for mine

Submitted by TommyMaddox on
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I've been working with my partner to decrease the frequency of our orgasms because I feel like I am more stable emotionally when I orgasm less frequently. However, this has been challenging because she still prefers regular orgasm. When we do orgasm with each other I do feel more drawn to pornography and fantasy in the subsequent days. However, I think I'm also using what I know of the dopamine cycle as an *excuse* to view porn or have fantasies. Almost as if it's her fault because she made me have an orgasm and therefore I can go watch porn or fantasize about someone.

I know that's not a proper way to look at things and fortunately I haven't had this attitude for long (I only stumbled across Marina's work a few months ago). The obvious option is not to orgasm but I do feel that's something she wants and something that she feels brings us closer. So I'm in a bit of a tough spot because I'm torn between wanting to please her and be happy and at the same time wanting to be completely free from porn and largely free from fantasy (not sure I'll ever get all the way there on that one!) and I feel that not orgasming or more infrequent orgasm is more likely to get me there.

Any thoughts?


Ugh, this sounds like a nasty situation.

1. She should not be making you have an orgasm, or do anything else involving sex. If you feel you are being forced or coerced that is VERY serious. I take women coercing men (or other women) every bit as seriously as I take men coercing women (or other men).

2. Obviously it is not bringing you two closer. That is a weak excuse on her part. I am not saying she is required to want to try karezza but she cannot really argue that an activity that leaves you craving pornography and therefore feeling MORE distant from her is essential to your bonding. Have you talked to her about how sex makes you feel and tried to work out ways to make it more mutual? Have you talked to her about the addiction and the fantasies and whatnot? I know it can be difficult but if you haven't, communication is pretty mandatory for any kind of sexual changes.

You shouldn't use her behavior as an excuse for yours. At the same time, she shouldn't put her pleasure over your well-being.

I'll second that...

I also feel the idea that orgasm brings your partner closer to you weak - it just doesn't ring true. Of course everybody has their own experience, but I find the actual moment of orgasm to be quite solitary.

I believe it's important for partners to be honest about what their needs are; she may crave orgasm for many reasons. For example, as a relief from tension, or even for the spark of transcendence it gives, but for closeness? Nah.

My wife behaves similarly

My wife also prefers regular orgasm, but she expresses this preference slightly differently. She prefers that I orgasm every time we have sex, but pursues orgasm for herself far less frequently. She has an orgasm during sex less than 2% of the time, after or before sex less than 18% of the time, and in the remaining 80% of the times we are together, I am the only one who has an orgasm. I have only recently tried to reduce the frequency of my orgasm during sex, and she is resistant to the experiment despite the relative infrequency with which she has sex-related orgasms.

I have explained to her that in the days following orgasm, I counter intuitively feel more sexually driven. I have more promiscuous thoughts, feel the compulsion to masturbate more, and in the past I used to view porn more following sex induced orgasms. In the last six months I have quit using porn, but only in the last two months have I made any progress with avoiding masturbation. Looking over my records, each instance in the last six months that I used porn, and each instance in the last two months that I masturbated, occurred the day after I had an orgasm during sex.

I agree with Halo and Celeste--orgasm does not bring lovers closer. My wife has said she understands my motive for trying to reduce orgasm frequency, but when the moment of decision arrives, she rarely encourages me to follow through with my intentions. Sometimes she actively tries to make me have an orgasm even when I am sufficiently in control that it is not inevitable (certain movements, verbal suggestions). What is particularly frustrating for me is that she infrequently has an orgasm during/associated with sex (and has fewer orgasms overall (although I suspect she probably has about 20 or 30% more than I know about)), and has always been experiencing the relationship-enhancing results of this habit. She has never complained about sexual dissatisfaction, rarely starts fights, and is considerably more content with life and with our marriage.

In the end, clear communication is probably the only way to address this problem. I have yet to explain my motive to avoid orgasm in such a way that my wife absolutely respects my intention. I believe that the process of synchronizing my sexual behavior with my wife's will ultimately bring us closer. If frequent orgasm were the best emotional glue for relationships, we would have been irrevocably bound to each other long ago. I hope the fuzzy-headed game of make-me-orgasm-when-I-don't-want-to is just a temporary obstacle. Eventually, if I have any measure of self awareness, I should be able to sincerely and gently explain that my intention to orgasm less is a bid to strengthen our relationship in the area where we both agree it is weakest.

I suppose that

at some deep, biologically programmed level, women are wired to collect sperm - at least from guys their genes sense are good perspective mates. It would make sense.

So be flattered Smile and keep educating. Deep down, she wants you to be happy and contented. She probably just views your current explorations as "a phase." Wink

Thanks for the replies. I

Thanks for the replies. I may have used language that's a bit stronger than what's actually occurring. She's certainly not making me have an orgasm. Rather she just does a strong job of implying that her feeling close to me and us having regular orgasms are linked for her. I need to look too to my own behavior and ask myself if during those periods where she isn't feeling as close as she'd like and looking to orgasm to bring us closer whether more physical touch could substitute nicely.

This is a tough one because so much of this is likely due to social conditioning. We've all read many things throughout the years that have caused us to believe that sex brings us closer together (with no distinction between orgasmic and non-orgasmic sex). So it's easy to just simply go along with that and assume that if we're having frequent sex we're "close" and if we're not perhaps we aren't. Most of us here on these forums (especially those who've read Marnia's books) know better but it's likely somewhat tougher for someone who hasn't studies this to accept it.

My girlfriend feels very

My girlfriend feels very free to orgasm when we make love, which she does almost every time we have sex, while I nearly always do not. This dynamic is fundamental to the sexual love we share and the intense closeness we feel. It may be hard to explain but the difference in our experience- her feeling the pleasure of orgasm over and over while I do not myself feel that pleasure is very enjoyable for her.