do we have to revert to the 'mating' program to attract a partner?

Submitted by TheZone on
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Hi I just recently got the book Cupid's Poisoned Arrow and I'm on the third chapter. My question is, when it comes to attracting a new partner that is unfamiliar with the karezza method, how do I go about it? Would the person judge me for being nontraditional? Should I be honest before we physically unite for the first time? And if so do you think my bonding behavior would be interpreted as being manipulative?

Should I bring up the subject of karezza later on the road, after already having mated or can it be brought about from the beginning of the relationship? I'm kind of asking this because I assume that most people are far too acquainted with the mating program rather than a bonding program at least.. for people in my general area.

I know it might even seem like a redundant question. Like how else is one supposed to start a relationship if not through the bonding program.. but once you've bonded you do do the you know... And people do give up on the bonding and start to view sexuality with a different cynicism.

Also, what are the psychological effects of one who has not really 'mated' with a woman yet, and being older than an 'appropriate age' to mate?

I ponder this sometimes as

I ponder this sometimes as well. With the typical man and woman, or teenager or whomever, conditioned to believe tradition and reinforced by mother nature, it might be harder to find someone willing to experiment. I know for one, a few women that I have spoken to about the subject in their 50's whose conversation I threw myself into. They had the typical situation of a marriage that needed more bonded and less random disappointing sex. Clearly a victim of not being warned of mother nature's plot, I decided to once again to throw myself straight into the arena. The one made a remark of "how would you have any idea of long term relationships?" I put it this way, "I don't have to step on a landmine myself if I see someone blow up in front of my eyes. It is proof enough to me." So many of friends I attempted to third wheel awhile with to help patch things up by nudging them to be more caring and less driven by being horny. It works for awhile, but I am not there in the bedroom when they make most of their mistakes. I created quite a few converts though, for they look back and realize how this applies to them. The immunity they thought they had when I first warned them, turned out to follow the same path.

How many otherwise happy couples break up over something they may never understand? You can make a difference though, for even if you date a man or woman who follows the traditional overstimulating path, you can tell them of all the info so if it all does go to hell they will look back and maybe rethink it all.

It doesn't matter what kinda couple you are, one that does it like rabbits or one that has chosen to be sexless. A deep stare into your partners eye's with an honest "I love you", a comforting hug after a long day, a long romantic kiss, it all helps. Even this one girl who I was with that I dated to help her become mentally stable again, offered sex, but I turned it down. In the beginning I didn't particularly like her, but just to prove how strong bonding activities are, I went from regretting dating her to realizing if she was remotely compatible, that it could have probably lasted a lot longer.

See I'm in a weird boat right now. I have a friend that has deep feeling for me as I do her. She has a huge fear of commitment, and at the last second the fear grabs her and she just wants to stay friends. I'm interested in seeing how hanging out with her more in person with a bunch of hugs and talking will perhaps overcome said fear.

As for the case when to talk about it, personally I would mention it when it is at the point in the relationship when sex becomes a subject. Hopefully you will have found someone open minded enough to at least listen.

Well, I kinda wanted to bump

Well, I kinda wanted to bump this thread, I think it's important. I'm 24 (which is considered young) and I feel that most women my age would just not be open to the new style of sex unless they perhaps were open to tantric sex or were celibate (whether voluntary or involuntarily). Even so, they've still learned to "taint love with fear" and seek fearful things rather than "loving things" such that, well I don't think my approach to sexuality would be accepted by any because it's also not "tainted with fear", and in fact it's considered unmanly, asexual or ignorant.

And I say that for most women my age.. because it seems people would be more willing to experiment with karezza when they get older or of course, until they're exhausted and want more stability.


You already have an idea what might work better for you - an older woman. Wink


Because life is not about who you were, it is about who you are becoming.

It's a challenge

to educate a partner. That's why I wrote the book. What's to stop you from lending your copy to a prospective partner and simply asking her, "What do you think of this? I can't make up my mind." That way she'll have a chance to educate herself.

I think it's unrealistic to expect ANY partner to buy into these ideas, even long enough to try them for a few weeks, without some background information that lines up the pieces. I certainly wouldn't have!

But let the book do the work for you. You don't have to tell the person whether or not you're committed to the ideas. Just say they made you think, or something non-committal.

ok. well there gets a point

ok. well there gets a point in a guy's life when loneliness becomes unbearable, and I can assume that there are more men that go through this than women.

And I feel the following is important if we are to solve the "problem" of men like me.

If young women are stuck in the sex "harem" based mentality, and fertilization driven.. on one hand you have women who expect nothing less than perfection, yet countless guys achieve "perfection" by sinister means, or just know how to act, or it was inherited hence a lot of men don't have to work but people and women might think "well they have money because their family has good genes, therefore the blessings come to their offspring and future generations without having to work as hard". But that's not true, a lot of good people have been screwed over, and it's to a point where, highest good cannot be achieve at least materially because there are higher ups that wouldn't allow it. It's actually a cosmic conspiracy that is personal to me, but I feel it's true. Therefore to truly be materially successful on this planet one would most likely have to have dark characteristics. On another hand, there are women who simply look for the most brutal of men, and dark.

So that Does leave a group of good men who work hard, yet haven't become "rich" (yet) and have no choice but to endure quite a bit of loneliness and suffering, to a point that it makes them question their sexual integrity. At least until they get acheive "perfection" but in the MEAN TIME they have to endure this lonliness of which none of the other males have to suffer because they already have inherited something, or when they were young they had enough women who experimented with them that they are comfortable with their sexuality.

So this does leave a lot of men who are sexually imbalanced, whereas most women aren't as much, or don't even care because well, they still "got it".

This all cannot be denied. And in most cases the situation these men have to go through do not see the light of day because they don't have enough "wealth" in the first place to achieve the perfection that most women want.

And for these men it takes, damn near half a lifetime or more to acheive something that would attract a woman, so that's why you'll see plenty of 40 yr old virgins.

Only IF a woman as aware of this that is happening can something be done. What men need is and end to the lonliness and not more. For how can they feel motivated and strive to acheive, with SPEED and such POWER if they are always being rejected. They're emotional and psycho-social health must be lacking. That's why it can take a lifetime, and that's why they will perhaps only find a mate in their 40s, or 50s, when health is declining and sex or fertilization is not as important or desirable.

I would think, this may be a reason that there are many men, especially those who grow up in poverty (In America specifically) who develop disdain for most women. No money or inheritance, or 'goods' = you or your family has not worked hard enough, which means you don't have a right to have a mate, regardless of how other males do it or their sinister ways. Regardless if you were just stuck with the situation, the curse goes on from generation to generation until those genes are "bred out". Kind like genocide.. And because fertilization driven sex tends to end with separation and the whole cycle of finding new partners such that relationship is seen as the wrong thing to do, so just be promiscuous. And women have this natural inclination because it has been with us since the ancient days (in some breeds more than others), and the media and the industry feeding off our suffering to create more suffernig and to keep us in a cycle of never ending suffering to buy more products suerly isn't helpnig.

Again, women ARE NOT

Again, women ARE NOT responsible for your well-being nor should they be expected to "act right". Only you are responsible for how you feel. You will have MUCH better results if you realize this sooner than later. Only YOU are responsible for your feelings, they dont have to realize anything, nor should you expect them to.

Courage is knowing what not to fear.

I am not saying that. But

I am not saying that. But nobody can deny what sexual frustration and loneliness does to someone.

You cannot just "get over it", especially if you're left alone, which is the same exact thing which causes it. It just gets worse and worse, the depression from it gets worse and worse. There are people, who don't have to go through loneliness. But they still have problems, and they can deal with it.

Loneliness is another issue. It cannot be gotten over the way other problems can, ie, that it doesn't require another person. Loneliness on the other hand does. Just think of a person who's been isolated for a very long time. That person most likely becomes insane, there's no other solution to loneliness except for the end of loneliness.

People will keep saying things like "happiness comes from within", and yes, it does. In most cases. But we are interdependent on each other. If the balance of interdependence becomes lopsided, and for a very long time, then it indefinitely becomes co-dependent. And nobody seems to care about why people become co-dependent. In a very real sense that person can't find a way to just live on his own. This person must be helped to the point where he can finally become independent, again or for the first time.

It's like a person who needs physical help to do things, until he can heal so he can once again stand on his feet again.

The problem is that 'internal issues' are so abstract, most people just don't know exactly how to help. Therefore, that's the saying : "who better knows you than you, and what better person can help you more than you" and therefore: "only YOU can truly help yourself". Simply because no one else will, for the reason mentioned above, and people are unique.

And if no one really talked

And if no one really talked about these things, nobody would notice or care. To say that happiness always comes from within, while the world goes to sh*t isn't that delusion? Nothing would get done.


You know what you need to do: Connect with others. Listen to your own advice. Keep connecting, even in little ways. It will get easier, and you will see that your happiness is indeed coming from within, even though the connections that help you balance your brain involve others. It's a paradox.

Though if I think about it,

Though if I think about it, we cannot blame women too much for it all seems natural given their situation. Just don't be surprised when you see a male like the one I mentioned above, and hate him,or be closed minded. I guess it's a common thing for males.

You know that more males are born than females (because the male sperm are more aggressive and quicker) but about 20-30 percent of the males die off to acheive a balance between males and females and it's all done with sexual competition.

Poor people have way more

Poor people have way more kids than the "privileged".

Why would there be a cosmic conspiracy to prevent people from achieving materially when people are so good at limiting themselves?

Its part of a victim mentality to think that only bad "dark" people prosper and good people do not. Whether you are "good" or "bad", it takes some kind of virtue to achieve materially. Being persistent, punctual, focused, and thrifty are all qualities needed in the maintaining of resources. Does a "bad" person have more of the virtues than a "good" person? While there are bad things that happen in the gathering of wealth, there are also people that make an honest living. Which are you going to hear about more? Probably the bad things.

Take responsibility for your circumstances, stop blaming the world, and cut out your niche in the world. Conspiracies exist, but you are holding yourself down much more than they are. Learn to be innovative and resourceful, get an education, become mentally balanced and the rest will follow.

Poor people arent always virtuous and rich people arent always crooked. But if you choose to see a world of mean business men and virtuous innocent poor people just to feel righteous, then I feel that is a bad trade off for you.

Courage is knowing what not to fear.


When The Zone rants, feel free to ignore his posts, which I will then delete. (Once someone takes his bait, I tend to leave the dialog just in case it can help him.) So, unless you really feel inspired, please don't take the bait he offers.

On days when he's moving forward, I will happily preserve his every word, and we'll do what we can to support him.

Hi Zone! Smile

I'm glad you asked!

Yes! ...and no.

Allow me a short dialogue that is partly based on a real conversation, dramatized for your edification.

I had just met a girl from an online dating website on a Sunday afternoon. We were enjoying lunch in the city on the open air rooftop of a great bar that has a waterfall. (Tip: find places with waterfalls. haha jk) As we talked the subject of sex came up. Hmmm guess sometimes men and women who have just met...well, talk about sex like two adults. It *actually* happens.

Me: Can I tell you something that I've been doing that you wouldn't expect someone to ever try.

Her: Sure. (leans forward curiously)

Me: So, I've been trying this experiment and I'm really surprised by the results...but it's really difficult.

Her: Go on.

Me: Well it started when I decided to quit pornography because I decided it was having an adverse effect on my relationships.

Her: (Mild surprise) I guess I kind of watch porn sometimes, you quit though huh? So what was this experiment?

Me: What I decided to try was to go at least two weeks without an, um...orgasm.

Her: Hahaha Why would you ever want to do that?

Me: Well, I just wanted to try it. Haven't you ever seen that Seinfeld episode where they have this bet to see....

Her: Who's master of his domain? Yeah that was hilarious. George is the first one who's disqualified.

Me: Exactly! That's how I thought it would happen with me. Except it hasn't happened that way.

Her: Wait, don't tell me...even now? (looks down a little)

Me: Uh huh.

Her: You're kidding! (Gets conspiratorial) Soooooo....How long has it been then?

Me: Three weeks.

Her: (Laughing) You haven't gotten off for three weeks?

Me: Hey keep your voice down you want the waitress to think I'm some sort of Buddhist monk?

Her: I can't believe it. What is it like? Do you miss it? You mean no masturbation????

Me: Nope, not once. I mean in the beginning it kind of sucks. You are horny a lot...then after awhile, just gets easier and a lot of cool stuff happens. To be honest I'm really proud of myself. I think I'm the first guy on my block to go three weeks witho-

Her: Uh Dano, I hate to interru...

Me: Yeah you know I've *really* gotten into this thing. Not only do I feel stronger and more confident but I get the most enormous....bursts of energy that make me very inspired to meet my goals. Actually, I'm sure once I have a job I'll be the most productive guy there. Of course my part timer is doing ok for me now but...

Her: Dano....

Me: Then I found out about this kind of *sacred sex* thing called Karezza and it was all very amazing to find out that there are people out there who go like, I don't know, 30 WHOLE YEARS without coming at all! Crazy huh? I was shocked but then I started reading about how there's all these amazing benefits like suddenly everything gets flipped around and instead of being huge jerks and using women for sex guys want to be nurturing and want to talk about the relationship a lot or just cuddle for hours holding each other and kissing sometimes.....Then there's this thing called a "peak orgasm" that I've heard is so *powerful" and blah blah blah......

Her: (Annoyed) Dano!

Me: Oh, uh, yes? (looks down at huge erection) Oh God, CHECK PLEASE!


Look man the whole point is you've gotta get out there. If you want to find a "mate" you gotta start dating. That doesn't change whether you quit alcohol, drugs, bologna sandwiches, or PMO. So do yourself a favor do some research and think in advance where you will take someone for your first date. I recommend coffee or tea. If things don't go well you can just leave after a half hour and you haven't bought anyone dinner. (You should buy her drink though.)

So the dialogue shows you some ways to bring up the topic. (And the BIG MISTAKE of talking about it TOO MUCH.) Try it! I've found that it helps if you are warm, friendly, smell good and *dressed well* when you do it. (I'm sure you can handle that.) There are infinite ways to talk about the topic of Karezza or withholding orgasm. People actually think it's cool. I personally think these things make you *more* attractive to women. It shows you care about yourself enough to *try something really different* and that you actually respect women by cutting porn completely out of your life. I remember saying on a date something like: "Look around this restaurant, I wonder how many guys here could say the same thing."

You have to just own this thing man. You tell them like it's no big deal, that everyone should give this a try at least once, that people who haven't are missing out on something. (They are) There should be no *big SECRET* that you stress and obsess over. Oh my God should I tell her???? When should I tell her?????? (Maybe not the first date IMO, but in the first couple weeks/dates.) The point'll figure it out when you start getting out there and asking girls out. I wish I could sit down with you for a half hour and get your dating profile up to speed and just send out email openers for like ten minutes to 30 different single women. *Someone* is going to respond. Trust me. That's what you need to do....If you haven't read my blog on online dating check it out.