‚ô•Inadvertent Orgasm during Karezza (old thread)

Submitted by Quizure on
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During the early part of our experimenting with Karezza, we spent more time close to the edge, and experimented with different positions which frequently spilled me/us over into orgasm. I'd say we managed to avoid orgasm more than 1/2 the time, but trying to have Karezza 2 or three times a week tripled the number of orgasms we were having compared to the previous year, where we had self-regulated by only have sex one or two times a month most of the time. So we were having lots more orgasms than before. This wasn't so bad, but it wasn't our intent, and we soon learned what our triggers were, and what to avoid.

Now that we're 18 weeks into this experiment, we've both gotten better at avoiding orgasm, but it still sometimes happened when neither of us is intending it, or even feeling very aroused. Scissors is the only position that's relatively 'safe', in that it isn't very arousing, in and of it's self. We've found that we can't do any face-to-face positions without "dangerous" levels of arousal for me, which has really been disappointing, but it is what it is. So sticking to only the scissors position, and limiting the amount of time to 15 or 20 minutes, we've been able to avoid orgasm for the last month, entirely for me, but at least twice during this time, my partner has had an unintentional orgasm.

So, here are my questions: for those of you who have been doing this longer than our 18 weeks - and who are still having 'inadvertent' orgasms, what would you say is the frequency of them, and when it does happen, do you both orgasm? Either way, do you go back to your usual Karezza schedule, or do you abstain for a longer period to get past the hangover period?

Quizure

We are still having on

We are still having on average about an orgasm a week, either together or one or the other slips up. The longest we've gone together as a couple without any is two weeks. We have each individually also gone as long as 3 weeks without. We have been experimenting with this for almost ten months now. Like you, I find that face-to-face lovemaking triggers me much more. Just looking into my beloved's eyes in this position is very likely to push me over if I am very aroused. Also if we have been apart for a week or more and reunite, orgasm is more likely to happen. And I've also noticed that part of the brain which, once an orgasm is had, will say, "You already caved in, why not have another?" So about once a month I have multiple orgasms. And sometimes there is just greater sensitivity for unknown reasons. Two nights ago I could barely hold it after a minute of gentle lovemaking. Not sure what that factor is.

I do know though, that slow gentle lovemaking is much much more likely to push me over than lovemaking at an even slightly faster tempo.

The majority of the time we manage to not push the edge too much and hang out in the 80's, then disengage. Just knowing when to stop is the hardest skill. Who would stop something so lovely?

Stating our intention after having orgasm not to is no guarantee of not having one. I almost feel like it has the opposite effect: once it's been explicitly avoided, it is more likely to happen. Basically, we both know that the intention is not to have an orgasm, so our default mode is always that we will try not to. And we pretty much easily go back to that without too much discussion.

Because my man does a lot of hard physical labor, he sees the effects of orgasm on his system pretty easily. He knows that if he is having a lot of orgasms, he will not have as much energy for work or for me at some point. He often comes to bed physically exhausted. In this case, karezza is especially beneficial, because we can still connect without making huge demands on his system.

It seems like a paradox, doesn't it?

No matter how much we learn, there's always more to learn. The more we grasp, the more it falls through our fingers. If we chase the sun, we'll never catch up, but if we turn around and wait, it will come to us. Slower is faster.

I heard it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something. (Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell) If we spend an hour each day making love (I wish!), it would only take us 27 years to become an expert - I still have a few years to go with my partner. Wink

Quizure

Because life is not about who you were, it is about who you are becoming.

My experience is that it

My experience is that it slowly tapered off more and more as the years went by until its maybe once or twice a year. My wife, on the other hand kept on orgasming for years after I stopped, about 10 years after, actually. Then she just up and decided she'd had enough. I think it can be so different for each person. The first year was when there were much more inadvertent orgasms, after that it tapered off significantly. It seems to take a while for the body to really rewire itself sexually and tune into more subtle energy. I found that in the beginning karezza style lovemaking kept increasing my sensitivity and sexual energy so I would get the hang of handling the energy and then there would be more. I'd then get the ability to handle that energy and then there would be even more. After a while that leveled off but it does take time to absorb and flow with all the energy that can move through our bodies when we dont release it through orgasm.

I completely understand about getting extra stimulated from slow movement. Sometimes the slower we go the more sensitive even the slightest movement can be. Quite delicious actually, aside from the possible consequences.

Personally I recommend going right back to karezza. We find that it charges us right back up quite quickly. And besides, whether you've gone over the edge or not the sweetness of karezza is still there. Why not dive back in?

I understand from your post how your doing with non-orgasmic sex but can I ask how he is doing. More orgasms than you, less, about the same? Is he as committed to this practice as you seem to be?

From January to April 15 we

From January to April 15 we had sex just 9 times, which mathematically is once every 12.7 days . - however, in practice, it looked like twice in 8 days followed by three weeks of no sex.

Starting in April (after reading CPA) I started more lengthy daily bonding activities, without telling my partner what I was doing. At that point, we started having regular sex every 3 days - and that went on for two weeks before I decided to explain the whole theory to him. He was skeptical, but was enthusiastic about trying. He didn't want to read the book - he's always left 'research' up to me - even at our jobs, I'm the one that does the research, and then I summarize it for him, and if he has questions, I go back and research more.

We did lots of 'surfing' during May and June. I really wanted to be tuned into what we felt as we moved along, and where the 'sweet spot' was, because I assumed there would be an obvious one. :O On average, we had sex/karezza every 3 days for those two months. We each had about equal numbers of accidents - about 1/2 the time, especially since I couldn't seem to avoid having one if he had one. About midway through July, I finally got my 'sea legs', and stopped having accidents myself - even when my partner had one, I could avoid going along with him, as l was carefully staying away from the edge - I can tell when I go from belly breathing to chest breathing that I'm in the danger zone, so it's gotten easier, and going consciously back to belly breathing helps a lot.

We had a good long stretch of 23 days between July and August where we didn't have an accident, but we have been limiting time (15-20 minutes, prior to getting up for work) and not doing face to face karezza. In going through my notes (it's in a spreadsheet now) the times when I remarked the experiences as "AMAZING!" or "So blissful", "I cried", they were face to face (all with subsequent 'accidents'), not the safer scissors position. I suspect this is where most of my disappointment is coming from - having to give up the face to face entirely.

I also have in the notes where each of us has some notable post-orgasm effects - he gets irritable, but not at me, just in general, for one day about three days after, I get weird later - around 11 to 14 days, not irritable, but I have trouble making decisions, and feel 'pressured' if I have to make one.

Quizure

Because life is not about who you were, it is about who you are becoming.

Quizure

I'm completely with you on the face to face. This is what Annabelle and I do pretty much exclusively. Yes, it does up the energy but this is what we are drawn to. The scissor position keeps the energy more mellow and is easy to be very physically relaxed in but we rarely use it. I think this karezza thing is so individual. You here us going right back to karezza love making after orgasming while Marnia and Gary take a few days with just bonding behaviors. We're all so different.

After posting yesterday to your thread I started thinking back on when first began, its so long ago, and I remember how in the beginning it was like," I made it a full week". Then two weeks, then slowly creep up on a month without orgasming. Then two months, and on it went, slowly but surely. Back and forth it would go, longer each time. I dont know if your man would be into doing this or not, or if it matters, but I always found that when I did slip over the edge keeping the semen in made a big difference in how I felt afterwards and how quickly I came back to being fully present. You may already know this technique, but it amounts to pressing a couple of finger between the anus and testicles when an orgasm happens. Press firmly, you have to feel the right spot, until the pulsing stops and I have found all the semen is retained and reabsorbed. He may find it useful, he may not, information to have in you arsenal of lovemaking tools.

The other thing that strikes me is the value in expressing and sharing what your experience is as you explore. I am touched by the intimacy of what you shared. Sexuality is something people rarely talk about and I think having a safe environment like this web site to share is really wonderful and very useful. When we were first doing this there was no one to talk to. No one to compare notes with, no support. We didnt even know there was a name called "karezza" for what we were doing. Sometimes we wonder if we were just plain nuts, although it did feel wonderful. I'm really glad we stuck with it.

Darryl

I can see that we were expecting this to be like other things we've done - we're both really fast 'technical' learners, we read the manual, the recipe, connect the dots, and away we go. We learn something and dive in, and become experts - we still experiment a lot to learn more, but ultimately, there's limited ways to adjust a system, or a recipe (I could give you a *KILLER* chocolate chip oatmeal cookie recipe), but with with us human systems, you can get some guidance, but you just have to keep trying until you grok it.

It is wonderful that there is this safe space to share our errors and joys, to ask for advice, and to come back again to share the results.

I can't imagine how you figured this out on your own. In our case, we just 'naturally' limited our orgasms to a few really nice times a month. We still did lots of snuggling and touching, and 'bonding' behaviors, but we did not connect the dots on orgasm directly.

Funny you should mention that technique - even in the scissors position, my partner would get 'squirmy', and be unable to stay still, and just a few minutes of that, and he'd be over the edge. If I applied a small amount of finger pressure in that exact spot, while cupping his scrotum with the palm of my hand, he could relax and stay perfectly still while we stayed connected for extended periods of time. We didn't know why, we just discovered that it worked. Maybe this would be of some value to others. I don't think I've read it anywhere here.

My partner and I often say that it's obvious we're from another planet, so doing this didn't feel any more nuts that what we usually do. Something tells me you're from the same planet, but since you figured this out on your own, you are obviously from the more advanced race. :)

I so want to try the semen retention technique combined with oral sex, but I think that might be just a *little* out of line. :evil:

Quizure

Because life is not about who you were, it is about who you are becoming.

Quizure

That technique is an old Taoist method which can be used bring the man back from the edge, like you have used it, and after its too late to retain the semen.

Although we did gets some input along the way, like from the Taoists, if you really feel the flow, the way forward sort of reveals itself. Sounds like you were doing some of this as well. I'd be interested to hear what Marnia says but we find this sexual flow is actually ever expanding. It never seems to level off and is always opening up in some new, deeper way, kind of hard to explain.

Fellow travelers from another planet, heh? Maybe thats why I always like the old TV show, "Mork and Mindy"

Good luck with the oral. We keep it fairly short if we go there which is very rarely.

I understand the hard to

I understand the hard to explain. I don't think English is properly equipped to deal with describing the kind of feelings that one gets from Karezza.

Nanoo, Nanoo.

Quizure

Because life is not about who you were, it is about who you are becoming.

Since the end of May I have

Since the end of May I have had what I call 3 accidental ejaculations. At some point between 3-4 weeks I begin to find it difficult to stop an unwanted orgasm. Since my girlfriend continues to have orgasms we will sometimes move together too intensely for for me to withhold ejaculating. She hopes I will gradually be able to extend to length of time between my orgasms and how long I can last during love making. In he meantime we need to decide how to approach this. We may decide that I should masturbate once a month or so as a sort of re-set procedure. We both would feel more comfortable if I do not ejaculate inside her. I simply do not see her body as being available for that.

inherdeep

Well, only three accidental ejaculations since the end of May is pretty darn good, especially if you are engaging fairly regularly. I'd start with being happy with yourself for accomplishing this.

My beginnings were similar to yours where I was not orgasming but my wife continued to. This of course adds a certain amount of challenge to mastering ejaculation control as your partner orgasms and sometimes with greater movement which can clearly egg on your orgasm response. Since your girlfriend seems to like you not orgasming how about coming up with some kind of agreement that when you get too close to the edge you give a signal, (like screaming at the top of your lungs "STOP!!!", just kidding), so she can give you a little time to regain your composure. Some signal you both agree upon. I actually did use "stop", although softly spoken, which worked great for us. I only needed a couple of seconds and then I was usually fine. Yes, it may break the mood for your girlfriend at that moment but I assume your continued masculine presence is worth a few moments of interruption for her.

As far as masturbating once a month as a relief valve, I would encourage you to continue on and not do that. Believe me I understand your feelings. You are building sexual energy and that build up takes time to adjust to. If you relieve yourself once a month you will never get past that level. If you work with it you'll reach a point where you can handle the new level of energy. Its sort of like rewiring your circuits to handle more current. At first the increased sexual current tends to trip your breaker, so to speak, but the body is a very adaptable thing and it will adjust to flow with more. Of course, once you handle that, then the energy will increase even more and you'll have a new challenge. But hey, your a guy, us guys thrive on challenge, right? After about a year the increasing energy tended to level off for me, or at least increased in smaller increments. The biggest challenge I have ever had in life and continue to have, is handling my woman and what she brings to the table just by being the magnificent goddess she is. I don't know if this sounds too corny but meet her goddessness with your godness. If that means a few "stops" during lovemaking I think she'll appreciate you more in the long run for it.

I have been observing there seems to be two kind of women who engage in non-orgasmic lovemaking. The ones who want to actually practice karezza, which is easier on the guy, and the ones who love it when the guy stops orgasming which gives the woman the freedom to go where they want without things coming to an end due to the man's ejaculation. Sounds like you got the second type, at least for now. For quite some time I was playing catch up to the level my wife wanted to play at and then it turned around and I began to handle more than she could. Its a nice feeling to be able to give your woman all she wants from you and not have to fight to stay back from the edge. You'll get there, it just takes time, quite a lot of it usually. I also believe at some point she will most likely want to join you in a karezza approach.

Here's a few practical tips to help you work with increased energy when you are engaging with your girlfriend. First, breath is everything. Stay with your breath, long deep ones. Not only does it keep your heart rate slower it helps circulate the energy out of your genitals and through your body as well as give your mind a focus point. I cant say enough about staying with the breath. Another tip, which is going to sound really odd is to smile during lovemaking. Yep, you heard it right, smile. Try it, it really works to help move the energy through you.

Thanks for your insights and (WARNING EXPLICIT)

Thanks for your insights and advice. We do practice some of the methods for restraining ejaculations that you described. There seems to be a danger point at about one minute after I enter her that we both understand and work well together with. One of my orgasms was simultaneous with her's and I knew that she was about to orgasm so I did not ask her to stop moving and it worked out OK. I do pay attention to my breathing just as you described and that is very effective for me. It is important that I breathe through my nose and avoid short breaths through my mouth. As you pointed out I am doing quite well so it is just a matter of progressing with my orgasm withholding. One other thing we have changed is that at the beginning of our commitment to this way of making love she very much enjoyed teasing me with light touches with her finger tips. She would do this to me before we fell asleep at night and also in the morning. This may have kept me a bit too much at the edge and she has reduced this type of teasing. She does enjoy my not having orgasms, which is a bit of a tricky balance I think between it being a good and deep part of our intimacy and a more femdom orgasm denial dynamic. Or maybe there is not a real conflict there. I do fully embrace her goddessness and accept that our lovemaking is tilted towards her pleasure, specifically of course, but not limited to, the pleasure of orgasm being reserved for her. I do feel that a woman's orgasm is more profound and more deeply pleasurable than my momentary enjoyment of ejaculation.

She does find my orgasm withholding to be exciting and erotic. The night before last we made love and after she had an orgasm I remained inside her while she lay on her back with her arms over her head. I loved seeing her naked body spread out on the bed. She asked me to slowly move inside her and told how good her orgasm felt and after another minute or so told me to pull out of her very slowly. I pulled my still erect penis out of her and knelt between her open legs. It was intense feeling the sexual energy still with me in my whole mind and body.

inherdeep

Sounds like you're on it and have a sweet dance going between you two. You both seem to be working very well together so it just about time now as you explore and find your way. I know what you mean about those first few minutes being extra intense. I experience something similar at first and then it mellows out and expands.

I'm not completely sure who

I'm not completely sure who you are addressing this question to but I'll say for us its pretty much once every day. In general, probably about an hour. During the week it hard to go much longer as the farm animals need feeding, the kids are up running our business thankfully, and customers are calling. Why do you ask?

The reason I ask is that

The reason I ask is that that is usually the most important factor that determines how much sexual energy builds up. How big is your load when you do ejaculate? Most people ejaculate every 6 days at least, and maximum recorded semen volume is 15 ml. I'm very curious to know how big your load would be. Last time I went 3 weeks, it was huge, much more than 15 ml.

I think your asking the

I think you're asking the wrong group here. Karreza style love making, which we focus upon here, is about taking ejaculation off the table to deepen intimacy, not building it up for a big blow. If by chance it happens in non-orgasmic love making no one is interested in measuring it. You may want to connect with the folks at a "Male Chastity" group. They seem to be more about what you are interested in around withholding ejaculation to build it up, although I don't know if they're into measuring it either.

What are you basing that on?

[quote=moronluono]The reason I ask is that that is usually the most important factor that determines how much sexual energy builds up.[/quote]

What are you basing that on?

I don't think volume is the only variable. After a certain delay, the ejaculate seems very different in density and probably other measurable ways too. I'm not sure any of that matters at all. It could be that this other ejaculate form is more normal, but less typical.

It could be that there is some sort of natural flushing process that generates greater volume. The body might recognize the opportunity to flush and take that opportunity like running the taps in the morning. I've found that after a long enough period it is uncomfortable to ejaculate only once. Even without a binge factor I will usually be physically triggered at some point as if there is a need to flush. After a sufficient flush, I can then go back to abstaining. Anyone else notice that?

All of this is very unscientific. If you're interested, measure your volume and see what you can conclude.

Amount of time

We don't do what usually constitutes foreplay. And it depends on what you mean by sexual activity. We snuggle/cuddle naked everyday for the 1/2 -3/4 hour on the mornings we don't have Karezza, and usually for 1/2 at night, too. Karezza/Intercourse is usually every other day. Mostly in the morning. 1/2 hour to 2 hours, depending on our other obligations.

Quizure

When we were

first learning, we generally backed up (after orgasm), stuck with bonding behaviors for days, and steered away from karezza intercourse for a bit.

Now, we're more likely to dive right in. Our biggest concern is just to make sure we engage in extra bonding behaviors for a bit. Gary definitely feels hornier after a slip (couple times a year?), and extra affection helps. My slips back into orgasm were more frequent than his...until I realized that chilis were a big factor. Smile Now I don't eat them, which has also made my ears stop itching. (I'd noticed the itching since my twenties...when I first started eating spicy food...but had never made the connection.)

My lover and I have a new

My lover and I have a new favorite position for gentle intercourse that allows us to be face-to-face yet is still somewhat like the scissors position.

I hope I can describe it~~he lies on his back and I am on top of him (facing him) with my right leg in between his legs (straight) and my left leg on the outside of his body with my knee crooked and up toward his chest. This is similar to how I like to sleep when I sleep on my side, but instead, I'm on top of him and sort of on my side. In this position, we can still kiss and he can be deep inside me without having to thrust, which is a lovely, lovely feeling. Smile

rediscovered

And stays flat on his back?

And stays flat on his back? I can't quite visualize it. I think I need two artists manikins to pose - but I'm sure it will be more fun just to try it out for ourselves.

Quizure

Because life is not about who you were, it is about who you are becoming.

Yes, he is flat on his back

Yes, he is flat on his back and I am on top of him, but more to the side than just right on top of him. Then I bring my left knee up and leave my right leg straight between his legs. Of course, it can be done on the opposite side, too (we will often switch around for comfort).

You might find something even better while experimenting! Have fun~~

rediscovered

Sounds like

a nice solution. Each pair of lovers has to find the right positions. Gary and I often use one in which we're pretty much on our sides, but my legs are wrapped around him, rather than in scissors.