Week 14

Submitted by cyberbob82 on
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14 weeks porn free. Here's an update on what's been happening:

* Still porn free from the start of July. I've masturbated more than I should, which I'm not proud of. I've also read some erotic stories so I'll have to keep an eye on this. I also hurt my wrist playing soccer so I haven't been able to hit the gym, which is making me kind of restless.

* Salsa classes are back on again. There's some cute girls in my class. I'm going to see how that pans out. Salsa girl made another appearance which resulted in a night of freaky sex, but it's only a casual thing. I don't see her as girlfriend material. She's too young, random and clearly has a few issues with her ex-boyfriend and trust, which kinda rule that out of the equation. If I see her again though, I'll take it as it comes.

* Spanish classes are winding down for the year so I'll have to find another class to keep me sharp.

* I feel like I'm on top of the physical aspects of recovery. What I've realised lately is that I have not addressed mental side of my addiction. What led me to seek refuge in porn in the first place. The fact is I'm still pretty insecure around women and I'm still insecure about my sexual performance. These issues are going to take a lot longer to deal with I feel compared to addressing the physical side of my addiction. I'm not even sure how to go about dealing with them really. Kicking porn has helped a lot, but I still have this deep seated belief that I'm somehow different when it comes to girls and sex. It just seems to click naturally for most people and the whole courting experience and associated mating rituals still leave me feeling quite alienated. I feel I'm improving in regards to my self talk and self image but I don't feel complete yet.

It would be really interesting to hear from others who are having similar thoughts.

Comments

Regarding insecurity

Hey there cyberbob,

Your insecurity around women, sexual performance, and self image all go hand in hand...I was not insecure around women before failing to get an erection one time....once i doubted my sexual abilities, my self esteem plummeted, and my self image with it, leading to depression, which still seems to have lingering effects on me. Even now, the fact that I can't lust anymore (discussed in my blog) and don't get that instant erection like I used to makes me insecure. My confidence seems to be going up bit by bit, and hopefully once the insomnia and stress about my mental/physical health go away, my libido and confidence will be back to where they were. I can't guarantee it though, and i'm willing to work with the more emotional aspects of arousal for a while (just don't have someone to share that with at the moment :( )

Regarding sexual performance, you have to figure out what you want to accomplish in sex and why it makes you uneasy...are you afraid a girl will leave you if you're not good enough? Are you afraid you're not big enough or last long enough? As many sayings will attest, size isn't that important, and lasting longer doesn't necessarily mean you will bring more pleasure...many women simply don't orgasm through vaginal intercourse, or at least not with some extra stimulation. You just need to have realistic expectations, and be confident that she is interested in more about you than just your sexual performance. Granted, I'm not exactly a role model for having this attitude as I'm insecure too, but at least it's the right idea, even if I can't follow it just yet.

And for some people it does click. Some people can become completely infatuated with someone at the drop of a hat. Others can put on a nice guy face and sweet talk their way into just about any girls pants. And then there are the people like us, with low self esteem growing up, working in male dominated workplaces that inhibit our exposure to and knowledge of the fairer sex, stunting the development of that part of our brains. I think it's something that can be developed with practice. Not sex, but really developing deep feelings for someone, where you know that they accept you for exactly who you are, and not what society wants you to be. Nobody's perfect, and it's not alwyas easy to accept that, but once you accept that you don't have to be perfect, and you won't find someone perfect, everything will seem a lot more perfect.....make sense? Also, even though it might SEEM like it clicks for a lot of people, think of how many marriages end in divorce, and all the relationships that never even make it that far. People can pretend to make it work for a while, but eventually, a deeper connection and commitment has to exist for it to truly click. Much like the way porn addicts think that the latest thing they saw was the best thing ever, people can get that way with other people (sex addicts, love addicts), only to find themselves looking for more a little ways down te road.

I'm not worried about my

I'm not worried about my penis size. I used to be, because of skewed perceptions from watching porn, but I'm over that now. I don't think that I last long enough and yes, honestly, I feel this is a reason a girl would leave a guy. I'm definitely insecure about this. And not sure what to do about it. I have seen myself try to compensate for this in other ways in relationships, for example, by being nicer than I should to girls who don't deserve it. I've stopped doing this sort of thing though, now that I've realised why I do it. The underlying issue still remains though.

I have found that laying off the masturbation makes me more confident and social, but it also gives me more of a hair trigger as far as coming too fast goes. It's like a catch 22.

I'm not expecting to be perfect. I'd just like to be able to show my woman a good time. I don't expect her to be perfect either. I feel like I'm making progress in getting to a healthier, better rounded me, but progress is slow at times. Beee

It's not a catch22

if you spend more time getting to know a partner and try really gentle sex to start with. At some point, you may want to make another experiment with cutting back. Confidence is way more attractive than a porn-performing penis, believe or not. If you're honest with your partner and make sure you let her know she's attractive, she won't be that bothered by a slower approach.

Is it possible that you have learned too well the type of "instant sex" porn portrays and therefore are attracting partners of the same mindset?

In this case being honest is

In this case being honest is that I'm shit scared when I'm having sex a lot of the time and that kinda conflicts with the whole confidence bit. I'm not confident. That's the whole problem. It's easy to have faith in the process when kicking porn addiction because that's something I can do alone. When a partner is involved, it's hard. I can have all the faith I want, but she might get bored and leave.

Both and they are definitely

Both and they are definitely related. I have considered opening up about everything but there's a lot to tell and it might totally freak her out. I'm a guy, it's hard. I'm 28 and I'm expected to have this shit down by now. Problem is I've probably got the sexual and relationship experience of your average 18-20 year old. I'm trying to communicate a lot more in the bedroom and listen to what the girl says and how her body is responding. This is what I'm trying to work on. But any practical tips for easing nerves and delaying orgasm are appreciated. I've been doing some reading on reverse kegels as a way of delaying ejaculation but haven't had much luck. Does anyone have experience with this?

Anyway I'm going to go this whole week without masturbation as a short term goal.

I feel you on the

I feel you on the age-experience mismatch. I'm in the same boat in many ways. I don't think you should feel that way. I find many sexually experienced girls that to me act like they are teens. The mere fact that you can conceptually get the ideas discussed on here puts you way ahead. I personally don't understand the sexual hangups discussed here. Coming from my background where sex is for the married people, I think you all are not close enough to your partners and that leads to inner conflict. You are trying to mate, not bond. Mating is easy. Bonding is the hard part.

Here is my radical suggestion. Take this sort of talk out of the bedroom. I personally find walking is the best way to talk about this stuff because both people can stay relaxed, cool headed, and not get too distracted. Find a nice park and let it all out. Be ready for a lot of depth and challenge of your convictions. Make sure you listen to her and don't just dump yourself on her. If she is worth your time, she will not freak out. It is likely to bring you much closer. Odds are you will need more than one chat, but you have to start. If you have insecurities, she probably does too. Do you feel any of that coming form her? I think you will find that once the air is clearer, your bedroom experience will be quite different.

Another idea is to focus on her entirely. Can you hold her for her sake without any personal objective? If you extend this to the bedroom, I think it will be easier to be relaxed. I'm not sure there is any need to delay orgasm if your focus is fully outward. It will naturally delay in your pure desire to satisfy her. Ask her to take a measured pace. If she is equally focused on you, that will not be hard for her.

Good luck. Let us know what you try and how it goes because feedback is useful for all of us.

Mmmm I don't agree that age

Mmmm I don't agree that age and sexual maturity and general maturity are necessarily related. I also don't believe that pair bonding and marriage are necessarily related. I think personally being closer with my partners will help. I guess I have to find the right girl for that. The walking idea is a good one. It feels weird discussion all that stuff in the bedroom. I shall report back any developments.

You partially misunderstand

You partially misunderstand me. I must be cloudy headed tonight.

My point was that age and the maturities are not related and so you should not feel deficient based upon age. Your peers might be no better. Sexuality is about more than knowing the how. How is easy to learn, while the other aspects take more time. There is only you...not the you that you think you ought to be. She want the you that is.

My point was not that marriage is pair bonding. It is, at best, a public manifestation of pair bonding. I do think that if one is close enough to a person to commit to marriage without first having sex, many of the roadblocks to sexual performance will not be there. You can remove marriage from that logic. It then boils down to closeness before sex as opposed to, the all too common, other way around. Your insecurities are a clear block to closeness. I'm sure as you go you will have others and so will she. Closeness builds closeness.

I've pondered this idea of the right person. I think the best way to find her is to be as open as possible. You know this girl is interested. Now you can probe, push, and lay it all on the line in the name of sharing, caring, and growing closer. If she stays and reciprocates the process, you will both be much wiser and closer. If she goes, it is for the best because she is not mature enough in some respect. In this light, there is perhaps no rejection. There is growing together if you are properly aligned.

I sympathize with you guys and feel that if I were to just have sex, I'd be in the same position. I think this is a manifestation of our bodies telling us we're not close enough and not solely due to masturbation or porn us. I suspect that is we activated the mating algorithm, with a prostitute for example. we would have much less performance anxiety. I have no way to test this, but this is my intuition in deeply considering various avenues to go down in relationships. If you follow an objectifying mating path, there is less anxiety because you don't need closeness, but sex is also meaningless, procreative, physical process. To me this is sex. If you follow a humanizing path, anxiety rises because there is not yet sufficient closeness. To me this is pair bonding love. Anxiety is protecting you...listen to it. It could also be that you are on the love path and she the sex path. Talk about that too just to be sure. I find many girls are unclear about this. They confuse love and sex in our promiscuous society. She will feel much more at ease to know how you feel.

One more thought because these conversations can get really intense. Consider using some sort of timetable. Say an hour, once around the lake, etc. for you to talk about a topic and then reverse roles. People have to mull these ideas anyway. It can be more productive after a little while to switch the topic and switch to listening mode. Just make it clear you will talk about it again at any time. Don't talk about this not in person. Both of you need to be fully present. It's worth the time.

Remember

that you have watched a lot of porn scenarios, and your peers have, too. Without realizing it, you've absorbed a "template for sexual encounters." You may be trying to live up to (down to?) a standard that simply doesn't work...for a lot of people, both male and female, and perhaps not for you either. You got a taste of it with Salsa Girl, and it was exhilarating, but are you sure you want a stream of that kind of encounter? The farther down that path you go, the tougher it may be to shift gears. Also, "like attracts like."

So maybe get really clear on what you want long-term and steer for that...regardless of what you imagine your peers are up to. Also choose some people in the next generation whom you admire and would like to emulate. How have they managed their sex lives?

One of my biggest discoveries in life was that sex has a major influence on mood, perception and character. The way one uses sex is not just a result of those things. It can be really challenging to be the kind of person you most want to be and engage in a lot of porn-scenario type sex because of its effects on the sensitivity of your brain.

I know I have much to

I know I have much to unlearn...if that's possible. I know that porn style sex does not work. Trouble is that there's not too many people willing to let you watch them have sex and take notes, so you have to ask. Which is what I'm doing. I've read up on Kareza and I'm not sure if that's the answer either. There's seems to be too much of an "orgasms are bad" slant to it. Obviously that is a problem for some people, but I'm not sure that's my problem. Porn style sex is definitely not the answer either. I'm think the truth (at least for myself) lies somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. I guess the other missing piece of the puzzle is finding a girl I trust enough to share all of this with.

Are you saying someone

Are you saying someone should make karezza videos? I think you have taken the ideas here to the other extreme of "orgasms are bad." I'm pretty sure Cupid never says that. The idea is simply that there is no goal...no goal to orgasm or not to orgasm. Yes, at first we have to try not to orgasm because we are ill trained. Although, it sounds from some of the karezza practitioners as though the karezza method doesn't make it too hard to avoid orgasm. Hence, we can go back to no goal mode.

I'm also wondering if I'll find a girl I can share any of this with. I may just take the plunge and see what they say. Why can't you talk about sex without mentioning the thinking here just to feel her out. You should be able to get a sense of what she thinks and what she is willing to try. Karezza itself might come off as less radical than the ideas here. What do the women out there say (pretend you knew nothing about this thinking and were orgasm driven)?

...

I'm not suggesting someone make videos I was more illustrating a point. I admit I haven't actually read Cupid just the stuff that's on this site in relation to kerezza and there seems to be a lot emphasis on avoiding orgasm for a number of reasons. I can relate to that in terms of the recovery process from porn addiction and even as a temporary thing in the search for spiritual enlightenment, but I've never really experienced the down side to orgasm like is mentioned in the article on the hidden cycle of orgasm. I guess I found the site primarily in an effort to kick my porn addiction, but I appreciate that people are on here for a number of different reasons. Maybe if I was in a committed relationship long enough for the honeymoon effect to wear off, I'd see more value in the Karezza approach for myself. I'm not totally dismissing it, I just think there's other issues I have to work on first.

Have you gone say three

Have you gone say three weeks without orgasm and then orgasmed to experience the contrast? I think you will find that orgasm and porn are more intertwined than you think. We can't readily go back to the pre-porn world.

I think you are confusing two different sets of people:
1) the recovering porn addict might want to totally abstain for a period to reboot such that he can both break the habits of PMO and experience the world in a more balanced manner...once balanced he can then better decide what to do next and work on other underlying issues.
2) others, including the recovering porn addict, are looking to improve relationships by changing the orgasm focused dynamic into a pattern to harmonic bonding that is not goal (orgasm) driven.

I also waited to read Cupid . I found, and Marnia later confirmed, that some chapters are not written for me in Marnia's effort to write to a wide audience. I read them anyway. I found that finally reading Cupid was very helpful. I thought I got it, but maybe I didn't. Before reading it I was also inclined to see these ideas as anti-orgasm. You should read it and then see how you feel.

...

I went for about 8 weeks with no orgasm and no porn and then orgasmed. It was all rather explosive. See my blog for more details. Blum 3

I understand the difference between the two types you mention. I'm definitely in the second category.

Maybe it's time to read Cupid. I'll look into getting a copy.

Women can be just as closeminded as men, unfortunately

No one likes the idea at first. Wink I thought it sounded weird, too.

But Cyber, I 'm not even suggesting you try to sell the idea to a prospective mate just yet. I guess I'm suggesting you decide if you want to choose encounters that are not like Salsa Girl...where you can see going into the thing that it's just a hook-up.

You may also want to experiment with steering to have orgasm only with a partner...with maybe the occasional fantasy-free, sensual wank during long stretches of being on your own. The goal isn't the "avoiding of orgasm" for its own sake. The goal is to strengthen your confidence and optimism. Orgasms are fine...if they're not eroding either of those things. However, many of us have brains that don't do well with too much stimulation. It sucks, but it's simply NOT a moral concept.

...

Most girls I get involved with I see as having the potential to turn into something more than just a casual thing. I'm not a one nighter kinda guy. In the case of salsa girl I found out pretty quickly that she was still involved with her ex and wasn't being honest about it at first so it could never progress because she lied. For me, if you lie, that's it. I can't build a relationship with someone who isn't honest. I haven't heard from her in a couple of weeks anyway and wasn't planning on following it up. I wish relationship material girls came along every day but they don't and I get horny and I think it's better for me to be having real sex rather than hand sex.

I will lay off the masturbation for a while. I haven't so far this week. If I could get it down to once a fortnight I think that would be good.

...

[quote=Marnia]know what you notice...if anything. You're one of my favorite scientists here. Smile

Wishing you a proper mate, and soon.

*big hug*[/quote]

Hehe...I don't think I've ever been accused of being a scientist before. Blum 3 The hugs help. Keep em coming. Smile

cyberbob82 wrote: Salsa

[quote=cyberbob82]
Salsa classes are back on again. There's some cute girls in my class. I'm going to see how that pans out. Salsa girl made another appearance which resulted in a night of freaky sex, but it's only a casual thing. I don't see her as girlfriend material. She's too young, random and clearly has a few issues with her ex-boyfriend and trust, which kinda rule that out of the equation. If I see her again though, I'll take it as it comes.

[/quote]

Ok, I'm just curious. You had a night of freaky sex, so what's the freaking problem???
I ask because I can't have a night of freaky sex because of this stupid masturbation addiction. FYI, I've had a few beers, but what I say is still valid.

...

I'm not going to lie. Freaky sex is fun. But I'd trade it in a heartbeart for a good relationship with a nice girl. I still have mental issues to work through. The problem with one night stands and casual relationships is that they are like trying to fill a bottomless well. It's not fulfilling. Well not for me. A lot of guys might disagree, but I suspect they just don't realise the price they are paying for these types of relationships. Sex is so much better when I really like the girl and connect with her. The problem is I get horny like any other red-blooded male and I don't have a partner right now, but I remain optimistic. I look at how far I've come and it gives me hope to keep going.

I sympathise with your situation. Masturbation is a hard thing to control. I have been able to go for extended periods without masturbation. During these times I've been motivated by the fear of losing my libido and sexuality. This fear is a bigger motivator for me, than the urge to masturbate. If you think of it that way, it might help. Also things like:

- Install a porn blocker.
- Identify triggers that urge you to masturbate and remove them if possible.
- Substitute masturbation for something else healthy like exercize.
- Get out and socialise more, less Internet and TV - more getting out of the house.
- Set short term goals and stick to them. Don't get discouraged if you stumble. Get straight back on the horse.
- Reward yourself when you meet your short term goals.

Good luck. Smile

you're right

Yes, fear is what is motivating me to stop. My libido is so messed up. I haven't been normal ever.
Thanks for the tips. I'm on day 28, and I feel like an addict that needs a fix, but I've made up my mind not to do it.

Congratulations

on getting that far. I hope you start seeing results soon. It seems that 6-8 weeks is often a turning point. *fingers crossed* Smile

Are you doing anything to help regulate your mood? Exercise? Socializing? Service? Time in nature? And so forth?

not as much as I should

Well for the last year, I have been jogging, and got above 3 miles which was amazing for me. Then I got sick and got out of the routine.
To be honest, I'm scared to death that my libido is not going to return. Basically for 20 years I have used masturbation to escape from all the minor and major stresses of life. With real women, I rarely can become aroused. It's very depressing and I'm surprised I've survived so far. I'll post a new topic on this soon.
I feel my body and brain is changing though. I have this internal anxiety that is a bit overwhelming, but I feel changes are happening. In the mornings, I've even noticed some libido.

...

[quote=Marnia]You're far from hopeless. It makes sense to stick with it a few more weeks, as you've come (ahem) this far.

We're rooting for you.[/quote]

Haha. Always makes me laugh. In Australian slang rooting = fucking.