♥ - Addicts: are they in or out of control?

Submitted by freedom on
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I replied last night to a thread that was deleted by the original poster. I recovered my much too late night post for our viewing enjoyment. Some is out of context now, but I've left it as it was.

The user posted about how he felt that he is out of control when he orgasms and in seeking orgasm. He mentioned neglecting important parts of his life like an exam to seek a better orgasm. He wasn't a new user. I hope he opens back up and blogs because he seemed like he needed our support.

What do others think? Are addicts in or out of control in seeking their meds? Does it depend? On the person? On the addiction? I think they are in control and prioritize it over other parts of their life, but that is probably the minority view. I don't understand how a human can truly get out of control. What does that actually mean? Unless damaged, the brain will function by design and so be in control.
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Think about this control concept as it applies to you more.

Contrary to popular belief, I think addicts are actually in control. But control appears to be lacking because of duality of self. That is why the so called surrender is important. That is the merging back of the self. The slips are due to rough seas as we walk the merge gangway. And of course society can knock us about along the way too.

You may be right that you’re out of control. But it could be in your overall life as opposed to when you orgasm.

I’ve concluded (for now at least) that for me orgasm was about control. It was in a way the only time I was in control of my otherwise drifting life while I was getting tossed about at sea. I didn’t know it at the time. Now that I’m back at the helm, orgasm has kind of lost its purpose because I’m steering for clearer waters and using the cravings as lamination for my map instead of a poncho.

The 3am EST server reset happened and I’m losing it so good luck for now.

Yes and no. He argues that

Yes and no. He argues that the choice to crave is involuntary and thus addiction is a disease. The first part makes sense as craving is a survival mechanism. But is he arguing survival is a disease? He doesn't go that far. I'm postulating that for me and perhaps for others addiction is a misguided choice to survive. Survival trumps everything else and so our external choices makes us appear uncontrolled much like a drowning person will struggle to breath only to swallow water. We fail to consider all the information in the way that a healthy brain might. Perhaps there is indeed a developmental aspect just like an experienced swimmer would know to relax and stay calm. A one legged person can't run as fast as one with two. Similarly, an indecisive brain, especially in this modern, decision-based world is just about useless. He touches on this in various ways, but it isn't clear exactly what he intends to say.

What I'd like to know is how the brain handles negative versus positive decision making. I think my decision making has been messed up for a long time, but my negative decision making has survived and thrived. I also think my big picture decision making has gotten stronger because I couldn't make small picture decisions. Normal brains get more stuck at small decisions which don't phase me as much. The brain might have multiple tracks and perhaps that is why the addict will choose not drink at gun point. The addict ultimately drinks to live and that decision making hasn't gone haywire despite all the craving in the world.

At the end he talks of the possibilities running through the addicts brain. A non-addict weights the bullet versus the drink. An Addict considers possibilities the non-addict won;t think of under the gun. Perhaps this is why many creative people are addicts...or should I say why many addicts are creative. Has anyone tracked creativity pre and post recovery?

It could be that the decision making isn't numbed as much as changed. I certainly feel and understand pleasure, but differently than perhaps I used to as a child. That is hard to know. I think pleasure was always a little different for me and that I learned to compartmentalize my pleasure. I keep it for myself and don't share it as much as others. Then of course, there is the experience of pleasure versus the remembering of pleasure. Maybe addicts shift more pleasure into remembering and so appear numb in the now. That would sort of make sense if the addict wants to incrementally store up ever more pleasure.

Perhaps this also depends on the level of and type of addiction.

Some might argue that diabetes and cancer are to some extent a choice. Perhaps once onset they are not, but that people's lifestyle choices increase the risk. Addiction is in a similar sense is, according to these videos, not a choice.

He should address some of these inconsistencies. While I'm still a critical Mr. No brain, I commend his effort and enjoyed the scenery and the creativity.

I did find this http://listen.family.org/images/RecoverySteps.pdf which might help someone (ignore the religious aspects if that bothers you).

I agree

I think addicts by all means are in control. Many of us, addicts, realise that we are addicted to PC game, PMO or a substance. However, once you get your addiction into routine, you can't stop, not because you lack control but because you stop seeing the alternative way. I think it's impossible to delete your addiction until something radical happens in your life: eg. ED, change of jobs, country, climate, loss of wife/husband, overdose, etc... It's not the addiction which is hard to break, it's the routine which is hard to break, especially if your routine requires no mental or physical excercise.

For example, I think most of the guys on this forum who have troubles to stop PMO have never faced real ED or some other incident. So they relapse. Which seems reasonable, why would you break routine which doesn't seem to bring you harm + it gives you high. Those who overcome addictions prove that we can stop our addiction. Enyone can. My addiction was comming home from work, cook me a dinner, read a magasin/book for 30 minutes in a toilet and then spend an hour or so jurking off to porn. So, now comming home from work I really want to PMO after dinner. Once I get past that I feel better. I mean it is very-very hard to stop PMO but if not for ED I wouldn't even try. Same was true for my video game addiction. I dropped it by changing both jobs and countries.

I think if we try to stop any addiction we need to break routine rather than addiction itself. For example, if you delete PC game, to stop waisting time playing, you will end up installing it back in a few days, because it's a habbit. Same with disconnecting internet and so on. You need to change the habbit. Tho you won't usually change habbit unless something radical will happen.

To cut it short we need to brake habbit to break addiction; but then we need a radical incident to happen to break a habbit. Thus to break is almost impossible without some radical thing happening to you.

We are in control because we CAN stop our addictions.

"free will" versus "free won't"

Addicts have structural and chemical changes in their brain that lower their ability to say "no" to urges and impulses.

Addiction as a disease exists on a spectrum. Some people have it worse than others.

The vast majority of addicts were sexually, physically, emotionally, or mentally abused or neglected as children. The worse the abuse and neglect, the worse the resulting addiction is in general.

Impulse. Action. There is a crucial period of time between impulse and action. A person raised by emotionally available, consistently available, non-stressed, attuned parenting caregivers has usually developed the machinery to 1) not feel the impulse to need external solutions 2) ignore the impulse if it does come.

An addict on the other hand is impaired during the process. The level of impairment varies drastically from individual to individual, however. It ranges from the doctor who occasionally works late, to the teenager on Facebook, to the homeless drug addict in the street. It's different levels of the same thing.

The ability to overcome the addiction then depends both on how poorly the brain developed in the first place (which means how bad the abuse and neglect was in the first place) and the resources/support the addict currently has available to them.