♥What are the results? Trying to make a survey of sorts.

Submitted by New Start on
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I am wondering what are the results of practicing karezza for those who have properly gotten into it and practiced over some time?

How is your attraction to your partner and your partners to you compared to before karezza?

HOw has your relationship changed?

Do you have any feelings or thoughts of sexual or romantic attraction towards others than your partner and how probable does it seem that such desires could now drive you to act on them. How does this compare to before practicing karezza?

How often and for how long do you engage in intercourse?

HOw often and for how long do you engage in bonding behaviours?

Are the frequency and time spent limited by your desire to engage in intercourse and bonding or is it time and other factors that is responsible for the frequency?

Would it for you be possible, if the time was there, to deceide to set aside time for intercourse for a set time every day and follow through with it and enjoy it?

HOw do you experience sex now compared to before karezza? Do you feel this sex is more pleasurable than the sex you had before? DO you feel like you are sacrificing anything?

WOuld you say that you experience the valey orgasm? IF so how often?

How is your quality of life and health now compared to before karezza?

HOw does people respond to you now compared to before?

Has sexual and romantic interests from others increased or decreased?

Answer as many or few questions as you feel like and add other relevant ones if you want to.

And Marnia it would be great if you could give some sort of rough overview of how some of these things ahve changed in the couples you know who has started practicing karezza and how many couples you are familiar with the "results" of. I am trying to gather some rough data here so I can point people to this thread for "evidence" of the benefits of karezza. Oh, and I am curious myself about the more precise results.

If I ever get there

I'll let you know; great questions.
Having stopped seeking orgasm I feel like an addict free of the junk. I see myself and my spouse with greater clarity. I'm moving toward a deeper spirituality. This movement would not be possible if I was still using.

I havent tried the full

I havent tried the full karezza with a partner, but I can tell you from staying away from orgasm, there is a big improvement in my life in general.

If one way be better than another, that you may be sure is nature's way.
-Aristotle

I doubt that

you will get a lot of answers to your questions. We wish we knew the answers to these questions too.
Keep in mind that Karezza is a poorly defined term. What one karezza couple practices will be quite different from another, and probably change over time.

survey response

[quote=New Start]I am wondering what are the results of practicing karezza for those who have properly gotten into it and practiced over some time? [/quote]
• We have been practicing a form of karezza for about six months. Our approach does not include intercourse, for physical reasons. We describe it as gentle lovemaking without the goal of orgasm.

How is your attraction to your partner and your partner’s to you compared to before karezza?
• Skyrocketed.

How has your relationship changed?
• We are now in a much more harmonious relationship. Our marriage has come out of a long stale period and is rejuvenated. My wife and I are closer than we have been for years, in bed and throughout the day. If anything, she is more pleased than I for this change in our relationship. We are communicating much better, we enjoy being together and our social life is more enjoyable.

Do you have any feelings or thoughts of sexual or romantic attraction towards others than your partner and how probable does it seem that such desires could now drive you to act on them. How does this compare to before practicing karezza?
• I believe my feelings and thoughts of sexual or romantic attraction towards others than my wife are still there, but not as often or as intense. I believe it is much less likely that I would act on them.

How often and for how long do you engage in intercourse?
• We do not engage in intercourse, for physical reasons.

How often and for how long do you engage in bonding behaviours?
• Several times a day -- sometimes just a brief touch or a hug. More extended every night.

Are the frequency and time spent limited by your desire to engage in intercourse and bonding or is it time and other factors that is responsible for the frequency?
• We do it as much as we want as often as we can.

Would it for you be possible, if the time was there, to decide to set aside time for intercourse for a set time every day and follow through with it and enjoy it?
• We find that scheduling doesn’t work well for us.

How do you experience sex now compared to before karezza? Do you feel this sex is more pleasurable than the sex you had before? Do you feel like you are sacrificing anything?
• Sex is definitely more pleasurable than before – we were celibate for five years before engaging in karezza. I have sacrificed peak orgasms, but the benefits far outweigh the sacrifice.

Would you say that you experience the valley orgasm? If so how often?
• I have experienced a valley orgasm on many occasions. I would say they occur about once a week. Like peak orgasms, our lovemaking is much enhanced if I do not seek either one. Peak orgasms seem to occur about twice a month – I don’t think the two have every occurred during the same encounter.

How is your quality of life and health now compared to before karezza?
• Much improved. I feel better about my self and my libido seems to be present more continuously. I am more relaxed.

How do people respond to you now compared to before?
• No noticeable change. I am quite an introvert, but I believe I have become more outgoing recently. I don’t know that others have observed the change.

Has sexual and romantic interests from others increased or decreased?
• No noticeable change. I am committed to our relationship and have never sought nor invited such interests from others.

(Hope you get some more responses.)

Wow, that's quite a list of

Wow, that's quite a list of questions you got there and would take some significant time to answer thoroughly. My wife and I have been practicing karezza for quite a few years and I am willing to take an abbreviated stab at it but want to ask you a question or two first. You indicate that you are collecting data that you wish to pass along to those who might be interested. This sounds like you have a web site of your own and are doing some kind of research around sex. Can you explain more, if you do have a web site, what is it, what's your background, and is this a research project?

No I don`t have a website

No I don`t have a website and I am not doing any formal research. Partly I want to find out about these things myself and partly it is because I find it near impossible to persuade people on the net of the wisdom of this aproach. I guess they just think it sounds weird and unrealistic. Too good to be true. In real life conversation though I am able to explain about Karezza in a way that makes almost everyone I talk to belive in it. Not sure why the differenc is so big. Anyway, if I can link to this thread I would have impressive data to back up the claim. If I get really thorough and good answers that seem like they could do the job I might systematicly go round to forums that focus on relationship and sex and write about karezza and like to this thread.

I'm curious, do you have a

I'm curious, do you have a partner, and if you do are you both trying karezza?

As far as getting others to see the benefits and wisdom of practicing karezza, this is an rather tough sell. I've been sharing our personal experiences with friends and such for years and extremely few are open to the concept at all. Its a real paradigm shift that requires a deep rewiring of our whole sexual system. I believe our evolutionary programing really kicks in when it comes to sex. Biology takes over our thinking brain on this one. I cant tell you how many people develop this immediate wall, almost a glazed look, when I mention engaging in sex without orgasm. Its like some old, more primal, part of the brain just goes "NO", end of discussion and the rest of the thinking brain obeys.

I think this website is a wealth of personal testimony and information on karezza. Quizure gave you an excellent link, I would send people to that for starters. I find personal stories the most meaningful testimony and there are a lot of them here. Of course there's still a long ways to go from accepting karezza could work to actually trying it. It seems like a person has to be in the right place to actually embark on a path of non-orgasmic love making.

The one question that the answer to would really interest me, is hearing what it was that got a couple or individual to give karezza style love making a try and then sticking with it.

I don`t know how you present

I don`t know how you present things but if you immediately go into talking about not having orgasms then they stop listening to you there and then. WHat I think one has to do, and which has worked well for me when talking to people, is to say something like this: If you start having tantric sex you will not only experience sexual pleasure that is many times stronger and more satisfying than anything you have ever experienced before ,you can also keep your sexual attraction for each other and your love for each other alive and actually increase it over time. Normal sex is based on having a type of orgasm called the peak orgasm. THis is based on building up excitement and tension and having it released in an explosive manner. THat is what we normally think of has an orgasm. As with anything that brings excitment exposure eventually diminishes excitment and so your attraction will either disapear or become very small compared to at the outset. In tantra you do not bulid towards a peak orgasm. you relax, focus on the moment and the connection between the two and then as excitment increases you try to relax more and more. So you only build excitment about 80% of the way up to an orgasm. THen you relax into the energy so that tension ecitment do not push you up to a 100% and tip you over to an orgasm. As you do this several times you will notice that the amount of sexual pleasure you are having is actually higher than the 100% you thouhght of as where you go into orgasm. You might now be at 140% or 180% or more but you are still in a relaxed state with a still body. Surfing like this eventually leads you into very pleasurable, loving relaxed sexual states that are not like an orgasm per se but still highly orgasmic and more pleasurable. In addition to this type of contionous sexual bliss you will experience more distinct orgasms called valey orgasm. Some call these total relaxation orgasms. THey often have less clear beginings and ends than peak orgasms, they happen because of relaxation and being in the moment and can feel like a wawe or being in a waterfall and often give a feeling of sinking inwards and imploding as oposed to exploding. AFter such sessions you are energized and the feeling of afterglow many people experience after orgasm will often last for days rather than 10 minutes. And here one can go into talking about how the realtionship dynamic between the partners change, how the feelings are kept alive, stregnthened but are less obsessive than in the first crush faze etc. One can also here take a detour and talk about how it will take some time to get into and how you have to build up a charge over time and become resensitized and one can go into the two week passion cycle etc and talk about dopamine and oxytocin.

THe key here is that I did not start of saying have sex without orgasm. I talked about more sexual pleasure than they have experienced before, I talked about continous blissfull states and I talked about a different type of orgasm BEFORE I started talking about the problem with peak orgasms. And only towards the end do I start talking about how you need to build up to this and difficulties etc. I do it this way because I have felt that talking about it as stopping having orgasm breaks down all communication. It isen`t really true either from a tantric perspective. ONe still has valey orgasms and over time one can build up to states that feel very much like continous orgasmic states although different and not as aggressive as conventional orgasms. Almost every single person I have talked to about this has bought into the idea. Trying it is a different story of course but at least they initially want to. The people I have talked to are mostly young open minded and educated people that for example would be open to taking a yoga class if they haven`t already. I think I struggle with persuading people online because there will be a broader range of people and because I can`T see and herae people and see their reactions as we talk I can`t really tailor what I say to their reactions. Also in real life I have credibility talking about this as those I talk to will usually be someone who likes and respects me and know that I know a lot of stuff about meditation and yoga etc. ONline people just figure this must be some weirdo and if what he says sounds too weird or too good to be true then they won`t belive it. At yoga, meditation and qigong forums they buy it instantly though.

I think the way this site and Marnias books communicates about these things are not well thought out. Starting with her personal story in Cupids posioned arrow is good but the fact remains that what it communicates in the first part is stop having orgasm, have only very caring and cuddly sex and do lots of bonding and you will keep love alive and feel great and more balanced. As you get further into the book it becomes clear that there is in fact going to be a lot of sexual pleasure in this, actually more than before. THis is also hinted at in the begining but that does not matter because most people won`t get those hints, hit has to be said clearly straight away and then repeated, and most people will not get to the later chapters because they will be so turned of by what will seem to them to be the message of forsaking most sexual pleasure and just cuddle that they will put down the book. I have seen this reaction in other forums and when people comment on Marnias articles at otehr websites. What people are generally always left with, especially when reading the articles is that they should forsake almost all sexual pleasure and focus on cuddling and just holding each other warmly. It does not really matter that she to some extent talks about or hints about there still being sexual pleasure and actually more when 95% of the message is just stop having orgasm just cuddle and have cuddly sex., That is what people hear and actually largely what she writes in her articles. I just doN`t get why undercommunicate to such a degree that there not only is a lot of sexual pleasure in this aproach but that there is more. Diane Richardsons book describe basicly the same apraoch and reading her books you start looking forward to more pelasure. THe same thing goes for the excerpts I have read of the old Karezza books (Stoham, ONeida etc.) These books also clearly hold up the prosepct of much increased pleasure not only long term benefit. Reading, the first part of cupid and Marnias articles just leaves you with the feeling that you have to forsake most of your sexual pleasure for the long term goal of feeling better and more in love. Karezza/tantra is still a hard sell because it is so unfamiliar, sounds weird and too good to be true but with the current aproach 90% or more are lost without really hearing the argument for it. So even though I think Marnias books are amongst the most important ever written, and in many ways are excellent reads, the communication strategy is very bad.

In my experience,

if people go into the karezza experiment looking for "more pleasure," they end up at a dead-end rather quickly. The motive that works best is a desire for deeper or more lasting union with someone you really love.

I understand this makes it a hard sell in today's pleasure-drenched environment. This may mean people will only try it when they sense their relationships are fraying too easily, and they therefore place a higher value on them.

But selling karezza sex as another dopamine high doesn't work over the long haul. Partners are very likely to end up dissatisfied because they didn't have a "valley orgasm, " or whatever thrill you've tried to sell them.

Karezzaa's true gifts are a product of the nervous system becoming more sensitive to subtler pleasures, not to riding the edge of the sexual pleasures we all know really well. If you suggest the latter are the goal, then people will keep their feet on the accelerator, and their systems will not grow more sensitive. Keep in mind that when those older books were written, there wasn't as much sexual competition in daily lives.

When you experiment with a partner, you will see what I'm writing about for yourself.

If you want the goal you're talking about (more pleasure per encounter), you really should pursue classic tantra....not the Richardsons' version. It's all about the very highs (heightened arousal) you're talking about. But it is not a path of relationship.

In my view, karezza asks people to make relationship their top priority, and then grow into a subtler form of pleasure over time. This is the opposite of tantric, pump-it-up thrills.

How is your attraction to

How is your attraction to your partner and your partners to you compared to before karezza?

* - It feels like I'm as attracted to her as when we first met and then some!

HOw has your relationship changed?

* - Less stress, irritability, more patience and tenderness.

Do you have any feelings or thoughts of sexual or romantic attraction towards others than your partner and how probable does it seem that such desires could now drive you to act on them. How does this compare to before practicing karezza?

* - Very little attraction to others, though still present at times. I can honestly say I have no interest in acting on desires outside of my relationship.

How often and for how long do you engage in intercourse?

* - As often as possible, three times a week minimum.

HOw often and for how long do you engage in bonding behaviours?

* - Daily.

Are the frequency and time spent limited by your desire to engage in intercourse and bonding or is it time and other factors that is responsible for the frequency?

* - Time and other factors. I'm still ready to go at a moment's notice though I'm much more in control of my libido now, or at least I feel like I am.

Would it for you be possible, if the time was there, to deceide to set aside time for intercourse for a set time every day and follow through with it and enjoy it?
* - Yes. Totally possible.

HOw do you experience sex now compared to before karezza? Do you feel this sex is more pleasurable than the sex you had before? DO you feel like you are sacrificing anything?

* - Sex is in a way, more fulfilling than ever for both of us, even without orgasm.

WOuld you say that you experience the valey orgasm? IF so how often?

* - Still experiencing the valley orgasm, yes. I can see us moving away from this too over time.

How is your quality of life and health now compared to before karezza?

* - Seems improved on many levels.

HOw does people respond to you now compared to before?

* - Definitely noticeable changes in responses from other people.

Has sexual and romantic interests from others increased or decreased?

* - This is still comes and goes for me, though I am more interested in my Fiancee than ever it seems.