I'd like to hear from others

Submitted by Neal on
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I'm just over 2 weeks into this. My girlfriend and I have been practising making love with only infrequent orgasms for years. I have found that this definitely generates and sustains love. However the 'Peace Between the Sheets' total non-orgasm system is much more extreme. After 16 days I have got a continuous pressure in my prostate. I am also experiencing a feeling of distance from my partner, who I have been deeply in love with since we got together, 5 years ago.

I understand Marnia's contribution re the science of things. However that doesn't mean much to me. There is a new branch of medicine which is empirically (results) based. That sounds obvious, but in fact medicine is often prescribed on the basis of what science expects to happen as a result of medical theory. Turns out this is a pretty fallible way of doing things and impartial observation of the effects of substances often gives surprising, and contradictory, results.

Therefore, though it is interesting, I don't put much stock in theories or their interpretation.

On the other hand I would love to hear from people who have been practising this for more than a few months (and preferably at least a year) - to hear your results based experience.

What is it like long term?

Can the male body can go without orgasms and without prostate discomfort? Because while it is clear the body can go without ejaculating sperm (as after a vasectomy) because this accumulates in the testicles in a thicker and thicker fashion (according to my surgeon), this is different to seminal fluid, which is still produced elsewhere. (Chinese medicine advises a lessening of orgasm frequency for the benefit of the kidneys, but also advises against supression of the orgasm, also for the benefit of the kidneys.)

How many people have made it beyond the first flush of interest and found non-orgasm is sustainable and long-term beneficial?

How long does the period of estrangement last between the partners (we have been practising the exchanges, which aren't much different from our normal cuddling behaviour anyway, but something has gone a bit flat).

If you have been doing this long enough to come out the other side and use it as a way of life, I would love to hear the details of your experience and what you had to go through (please mention how long you have been doing it). And do you find that you have the occassional orgasm, or is this completely unnecessary?

Or if you tried non-orgasm and didn't go on with it, I'd like to have the benefit of your experience, and the reasons why?

Thank you to everybody, and particularly Marnia, for providing a forum for this very important subject.

Thanks for asking good questions, Neal

I'll try to round up some people who have been practicing this for a while (who are not on the forum...yet) to share their experiences here, in case the forum's small sampling doesn't yield any response from long-term practitioners. (The forum is fairly new.)

Just to clarify, even Gary and I have occasionally had a slip, that is, an unintentional conventional orgasm. The difference is that we don't ever "go for it." For us it's a question of choosing harmony over the experience of orgasm (since we know from our actual experience that orgasm definitely does temporarily change our outlook for the worse).

If you were not noticing disharmony with your former practice, you probably wouldn't move to this approach.

If you're feeling discomfort in the prostate, it is usually a sign that you are going too near the edge of orgasm. That can also account for the "flatness" afterward. You could be experiencing a mini-addictive cycle. Any time you "rev" up dopamine cravings too high (oragasm is one way, but hovering at the edge of orgasm is another), there seems to be a drop off afterward...which, in turn, makes you very hungry to raise your dopamine again. Then, if you don't get your fix, you naturally get grumpy.

So the answer to contentment with this system is actually "less" intense arousal, not more (orgasm)...and patience. If you don't send your dopamine into the "red" zone, you don't feel unsatisfied afterward. We just experienced this recently. Gary was away teaching for two weeks or so. When he came back he was "hungry." Instead of following our own good advice (about starting with some non-intercourse Exchanges after a long separation), we moved right into intercourse. He wanted more and more (which I was pleased to deliver :-)), and finally after a few days of feeling overheated and unsatisfied, he said, "I think we need to start the Exchanges." Within a few days of Exchanges, he was back to his normal, cheerful, sexual (but not over-heated) self.

For us it was yet another lesson in "less is more" with this system.

Finally, I think there is something larger going on here, at a more subtle level. I think that there's a natural progression in our spiritual evolution. It occurs in everyone at different times. It's a desire to move away from attachment to material plane attractions as part of a longing for something else. This gets pretty esoteric, and I'm learning more as I go. I am no expert on this. But here's a quotation from one of my favorite spiritual teachers, ancient Chinese master Lao Tzu, which kind of sums up what I'm learning:

The character of your existence is determined by the energies to which you connect yourself. If you attach yourself to gross energies - loving this person, hating that clan, rejecting one experience or habitually indulging in another - then you will lead a series of heavy, attached lives. This can go on for a very long and tedious time.

The way of the integral being is to join with higher things. By holding to that which is refined and subtle, he traverses refined and subtle realms. If he enters the world, he does so lightly, without attachment. In ths way he can go anywhere without ever leaving the center of the universe.

I sense that many who are drawn to the "Peace" material are longing to leave "heavier" attachments behind. This is not easy, and the process cannot be pushed (although it can be nudged a bit by a clear intention and clear understanding of which activities are particularly addictive...and how to tiptoe around them). Here's a link that someone sent me this week, which makes the same point differently:

In other words, maybe intention to move beyond addictive attractions counts a lot more in this practice than I realized when I wrote the book. I've always known that there is more to learn. It was my hope that by writing my book, I would attract others who were interested in exploring this. People like you, who carefully observe and share their actual experiences, contribute enormously to this effort. Only through experience will we see what works, what doesn't, and what factors actually contribute to the transition, if any ;-).

In any case, I share your view that experience must be a most important guide (with inner guidance another). However, I'm beginning to realize that the list of relevant influences that determine our experience may be larger than merely doing Exchanges. I don't think they're wrong or harmful. I know from what people write to me that they do help many. I just believe that they are the first step of a longer journey, one which may be dependent upon intention, selflessness, and who knows what else - as well as mechanical practice.

Anyway, let's hope we turn up some other views. Meanwhile, why not move back into conventional sex...and see what you notice over the next 2 weeks? I sometimes think that I learned more from my unintentional zigzaging while I was learning than from any other aspect of this journey.

I hope you will continue to share.

Long-Term Users

In response to your inquiry, my husband and I have been practicing non-orgasmic lovemaking for almost 3 years. I am deeply committed to this way of loving my partner and my solid commitment comes from my experience. Science is a welcome validation.

I have not had an intentional orgasm since I read Marnia's book 3 years ago. Since then, I have experienced so many benefits; better health, ongoing peace, closeness with my partner, sanity, calm and focus…just to name a few. Occasionally I will have a dream orgasm and I pay the price for the next 3 full weeks. That looks like paranoia, jealousy, negativity, mind clutter, lack of patience, crying fits, inability to cope, negative thoughts about my partner, distance and a need to leave an otherwise fantastic relationship. And then…I'm back to my happy, stable self, loving my husband with ease and fearless abandon.

In the beginning, my husband was less than committed and had orgasms at least monthly. As his partner, I could see the personality difference clearly. Only after paying close attention to his own experience did he become fully committed to non-orgasmic lovemaking. Now we make love regularly and he very rarely slips. He accomplishes this by focusing his attention on love and appreciation. The less he has orgasms, the less he feels a need for them. Like Sugar.

As far as physical discomfort, riding on the crest without release would seem to be indeed, harmful to one's health. I think Marnia is quite right. The key seems to be not getting close to the edge. We stay away from rough waters leading to the waterfall. And why venture outside the Garden of Eden? With the way we make love now - Giving HeartLove instead of sexual pleasure, Giving Thanks and Appreciation, Offering Silent Prayers for one another, Giving Light Energy and Healing Touch...Hot Sex has lost its Appeal!

There are many recipes to bake a cake, but they all have the same basic ingredients. We have not practiced all of the “Exchanges” as written, but we abide by the profound basic principals of giving love instead of "feeding a need" AND avoiding the heat.

Everyone's journey is unique. Everyone is their own Doctor, their own Scientist. For our Time, we are traveling uncharted territory on this one. We try different things, we go to the extremes to see what works and what doesn't. We experience, we pay attention, we take notes. And we bring back our piece of the puzzle to share with the Whole in order to further Human Evolution toward the Light.

Here is what my husband had to say:

My experience is that we look forward to not having an orgasm so that we can experience this new way of giving and loving our partner, and that has completely substituted our need for an orgasm. It seems strange to write this and I would not have understood or believed it possible except that we have experienced this incredible way of loving. At first I had to really concentrate on giving and receiving. If I started to take (moving into the “rough water”) I would soon be over the falls or trying to prevent it. Over time (years) it has become easier and easier to avoid the falls. Now we are moving in to a new kind of loving bliss and it will be interesting to see how it continues to change and grow over time.

Thank you, I am finding that

I no longer crave the craving. Autumelody spells it out accurately in that the focus needs to be on love and appreciation. The scissors position usually leads to this verbal exchange because we are in a very relaxed state with delicious eye contact in which our hearts well up and a continuous stream endearments follows. During these moments we appear to be much younger to each other. My Ipsalu Tantra teacher says it is because we are seeing the divine in each other.

I am the leader in our journey and my beloved just made it over a hump in the last week of not feeling resentful of me denying her of glorious orgasmic pleasure. She has agreed to stay with it for three months before experimenting with orgasmic cycles. She is learning a lot about herself and I am learning to be responsible for the leadership role.

Our energy assists each other. This last week I had put all my eggs in one basket to obtain a nice employment position in my profession and the universe said , "Not this one". My wife was much more devastated than I was and my positive nature quickly healed her disappointment. Under normal marital relations she would have sunk to a state of resentment and buried herself in work to avoid me. This time light prevailed because she was at a light receptive state.

I did go through a short physical discomfort period of heated and swelling testicles. I was not aware that I was treading close to edge, and indeed I was not. It was, however, caused by the seeking of physical pleasure. Even at the low level of seeking I was at, it was enough to confuse my physiology. The remedy was found in doing additional energy cyling as given in the book and focusing on the love and appreciation exchange.

I like what Autumelody said about being our own scientists. Marnia did the paradigm smashing and early work thus launching a flotilla of explorers to follow leads in our own laboratories. If my beloved does go through with orgasmic exploration, I will withold my own to my best and probably have to pull out and assist her via masturbation. I am not interested in dropping my energy level. This way, at least we will not form a downward cycle of mutual blaming. She can blame me but be less effective because I will be in a state of gratitude.

In our present state of energy, been practicing Peace for eight weeks now, we have moved through some very tough conversations and stayed in an attitude of truth seeking rather than exchanging barbs. Speaking truth seems to come a lot easier in this state. Less fear of loss.
Blessings to all my fellow explorers.

I was in a partnership for

I was in a partnership for two years in which my man intentionally did not come. He had been wanting to explore this in the past but had not found a willing partner. It took about three or four months before he got a handle on it, and after that point he would have to externally lock about once every few months. We definately did get close to the edge, and I had orgasms throughout the two years. I did not know at that time that it could be beneficial for a woman to withhold. This may explain why I was the one who broke off the relationship - my neurochemistry may have been considerably more imbalanced than his.

I can't speak for him, but I can say that he never complained of too much pressure in the prostate or "blueballs." My feeling is that we normally think of sexuality as having primarily to do with tension in the groin area. If sacred sex practices are part of spiritual discipline that increases one's awareness of energy pathways throughout the whole organism, a person will be better able to channel the orgasmic charge throughout the entire nervous system. I have experienced this on very deep levels with myself. Finding a partner who is willing to forego orgasm is one thing, but finding a partner who has a regular spiritual practice of inner cultivation is another. I feel that this path would be more clear and less frusterating if I had a partner who was devoted to inner cultivation practices. But, failing that, I do think people can learn to channel congested energy upwards and get it flowing through lovemaking alone.

In many healing systems, stagnation or blockage is seen as the primary factor leading to imbalance and disease. The point here I think is to realize that this is not about repressing orgasm. In my perspective, this form of lovemaking is about broadening our awareness of the continuum of ecstacy to include all of its subtly profound levels, and to channel the naturally dynamic and moving character of this energy into new and undiscovered places. Biologically, this can be difficult without an intimate understanding of the rest of our body. I know that for myself and in the bodywork that I do on others in the form of massage, my awareness of the systems of the body - its many levels, layers, and energy pathways - helps me to direct, facilitate, and be present with the natural intelligence inherent in us as organisms. Energy follows awareness.

I think habits are patterns and pathways of energy attention/intention. If until now you and your beloved have been having orgasms at a certain rate or frequency -even if very minimal compared to others -- your system has adapted to that as a pattern through which it can expect energy to flow. Any change in this pattern will lead to some sort of congestion until the energy finds a new pathway, so I think what you are experiencing is only natural and probably temporary.

But do keep us posted!

That's just my two cents. I am single and am not living this yet, so my contributions may be minimal.