♥My tale of love and experience with Kerezza

Submitted by antio on
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Hey everybody- I have been wanting to share my experience with Karezza on here. It is not a positive experience, so hopefully you will not just delete this post. It is not my intention to be disrespectful to anyone on this forum, more just to show people a different point of view. Also please forgive the length of it! Included below is my tale of love and woe, in form probably too long for a forum post, but in brief when compared with the life experience itself.

As an Atheist, I sometimes struggle to find purpose and meaning in my life without falling victim to the pitfalls of superstition and religion. In all things I try to make decisions scientifically, or at least base my actions and beliefs in reason. This can lead to an emptiness and lack of commitment to causes in my life, being so certain that there is no judgement of my soul, no trials of the Earth to show my worth. But the one area where I leave all logic behind is in the subject of love. That is for the simple reason that in my heart I know love transcends all corporeal form, all pursuit of pleasure and wealth, all day to day routines. I can not prove it, and maybe I just want to believe it... but in this disbelieving life of mine, the one circumstance where I choose to have faith is when I feel the glow of love shining out of the center of my being.

I fell in love last year with the most amazing woman. We struck up a conversation one day and she offered to teach me yoga. After my first class, I found her GMAT study books and we did geometry together for hours, the ultimate nerd date. We followed up with more yoga dates, started going on hikes, and going out to eat. What was most unusual about this relationship was that I fell in love with her mind first, despite her exotic good looks. She could hold her own on just about any topic, spoke five languages, had traveled the world, and had compassion for people which seemed heartfelt. She was one of those people you meet who is so smart that you know its just a matter of time before they are rich and famous. Yet, she didn't seem to have a materialistic bone in her body, and had no interest in fame.

After a few dates I discovered her sensual side. She loved to make me feel good, almost as much as I did her. She would rub my back, play with my hair, massage my scalp, anything that made me relax and melt in her arms. She sang to me, and her voice immediately made the muscles around my spine un-clinch, my breath slow. Just laying in her lap, I knew I had somehow hit the jackpot. Our relationship quickly became sexual. A night of sitting in a hot tub kissing led into the bedroom. We were a little hesitant to jump into sex, but our bodies wanted it so badly... just touching her skin made my heart race. Feeling her lips on mine sent ripples through my body, and feeling her hands on my chest set my circulatory system to work like an adrenaline shot. In retrospect, I would have been perfectly happy to take things slowly... hold her slender waste in my arms while we talk about anything and everything, kiss her neck to distract her while she teaches me about Ayurveda or tells me about her family or argues how sustainable farming can be a reality. Sometime in the beginning of getting physical, she mentioned that she had been wanting to try a totally different sexual method, something similar to Tantra. I told her I was interested in trying new things, and would experiment with anything she liked.

We still did a lot of the touching and talking, but the adrenaline shot moved us forward into a passionate, incredible physical relationship. I know that often times couples in love think that their sex life is amazing, and then a few months later when the novelty wears off they realize it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. But ours really was that amazing. Perhaps because I'd fallen so hard for her, each part of her body was perfection to me. Each time we made love it was a little different because I'd have so much of her body to worship and explore. Every part of our bodies fit together perfectly- when we spooned her shoulder was at just the right height for my arm to fit around the top while my other arm goes around her chest, and my thighs stay right under the warmest part of her rear. Her breasts fit perfectly with whatever I choose to touch them or how I hold and kiss them. The parts of her body I like to be soft are perfectly so, and her dancers body is firm where it needs to be. Every motion she makes may as well have been choreographed to be just what my body wanted. And I know she felt the same way. Perhaps it was sheer luck that our bodies fit together perfectly in other ways as well... she says I am just a little bit too big for her, which is code for just right. It was so easy to bring her to orgasm, that every time we made love it didn't just happen once or a few times, but often five or ten times. Countless are the nights we no doubt woke up the neighbors, and didn't care. Before she ever brought up Tantra again, I was already holding my orgasms; in part to extend the amazing experience for myself, and in part because I couldn't get enough of her body convulsing, shaking and moaning. I would wake up early in the morning thinking about her. On a typical day we would make love then, lay around for a few hours caressing each other, make each other breakfast, and do it again. Depending whether I'd have to go to work, this might continue off and on through the day. Usually we try to get out of the house and do something fun, but it didn't always happen. Only once its time to go to bed will I allow myself to have my own orgasm, partly because that will put me to sleep, and partly because "he" doesn't need to be on duty fulfilling her needs for 5-10 hours.

A few weeks in, and we start to have absurd arguments. She reveals her jealous side, and takes offense to many things I do which I would have never thought of as a problem. She doesn't like it if I turn my head when another woman walks by. She doesn't like that I watch a vampire TV series with nudity in it. If I have a conversation with a female stranger, she will quiz me on it later and accuse me of ill intentions. One day, we were watching a japanimation flick she had selected, and a scene with a partially nude woman sparks a crude joke from me admiring the cartoon female form- she storms off and cries outside, to my total shock.

Around this time that she gave me "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow," and asked me to read it. She told me about it as well, explaining that our frequent orgasms are causing our emotional ups and downs via their effect on our dopamine receptors, and suggested that if we switch to the style of sex suggested in the book, we might find a reprieve from all the fighting, jealousy and anger. I was very hesitant. Our sex life was so good, and I didn't want to change the one thing that seemed perfect. I tried to convince her of this to no avail, her mind was set. Regardless, I remembered having promised her that I would try out "Tantra," so I decide to give it a fair chance. Of course, when she had first told me she wanted to try something like Tantra, I only knew about the Americanized version of it, wherein I imagined using breathing techniques, different postures and timing to extend and enhance orgasm. This Karezza she had suggested was not really like that. It seemed to promote reduction of orgasms, and working towards replacing orgasm with bonding... and she also gives me another book about sex, which claims that one can have orgasm without ejaculation and describes the technique. Now upon joining this site I immediately see a disclaimer that Karezza is more about balance than abstinence... suffice to say that's not what my girlfriend or I took away from the book.

I don't really intend to come here and argue with the philosophy or science of your book. Much of what I read made a lot of sense and could explain some things in my life and behavior. Also I realize that I only gave the book a once over, so please forgive me if I over simplify a point or misstate something. I write this post only to show the effect that Karezza had in and on my life, and to give your readers a different perspective to consider before they pressure their significant others to try it.

Our first attempt was done cold turkey, which was likely a mistake. My girlfriend wanted so badly for this to work, that I was desperate to make her happy and pull it off. The first night, we had to sleep with our clothes on, and even then the sexual tension was tortuous. I slept lightly, with her on the other side of the bed, my emotions playing games with my head. "Why is she doing this to me?" "I just want to hold her, I just want to touch her, to be inside her..." "I didn't do anything wrong! Why is placing all the blame of our problems on my sexual habits?" "is there something wrong with me?" The second and third days and nights get worse, not better. I find myself getting depressed. Something has changed between us, and I don't understand her well enough to get it. While once I could see directly into her soul and know what she needed, now I feel like I am looking into a stranger's eyes. I see that she is unhappy, but I don't know how to fix it. Next I get angry. Everything was perfect in my little world, and now that she shook it up, everything is broken. A couple of times at my peak of frustration, I snap at her and say things I don't mean, which is unlike me. I regret it and apologize, but she does not accept my apology.

On the fourth day, I can't bear it anymore, and "relieve" the tension myself. I feel terrible guilt for having done so when I said I wouldn't, but I can see that the road we are going down leads to breakup anyway, so I may as well clear my head. Later, when she comes home from work, I tell her what I did, and tell her I don't think Karezza is for me. She is very upset. We argue for days about it. No matter how hard I try to get out of the argument, the only answer she will accept is 100% compliance with the program. We end at a stalemate, which lasts for a few days. During that time, she reaches out to other people practicing Karezza, seeking advice.

Someone explained to her that it is unlikely to work cold turkey, and that we should try the Exchanges and take it slow. Now, I was not only hesitant but angry at the whole idea, and so very reluctant to give it another shot. But upon realizing that I was going to lose my perfect girlfriend over a physical and sexual disagreement, I agree to give the exchanges a try.

Over a period of a week or two, we do one Exchange each night, and sometimes during the day. I see in my girlfriend's eyes that she REALLY wants this to work, she is more desperate than I have ever seen her, and trying harder than you can imagine. One night we are sitting across from each other cross legged, looking into each other's eyes, holding hands. I enjoy the contact, and the love I can see in her eyes again. We try to imagine energy traveling between us, imagine that we can feel our love transmitting back and forth, getting deeper on each pass. But I cannot help to hear the silence. Each exchange we do, she seems more relaxed, and sometimes falls asleep with the slightest smile noticeable. I am relieved to see her happy again... but I still feel empty. Each exchange I really do give my best effort to feel the described energies, and focus my love into her. But deep down, I know it is a charade. I am the most die hard of skeptics, and I find that even when I want to, I can't force myself to believe in things like Chakras, body energies, or the more spiritual side of things.

For our second attempt, we agreed to ween each other off orgasmic sex, rather than quit outright. Our usual routine became less frequent, slower, and briefer. Preventing my orgasm was nothing new to me, I had already known how to do that. I started trying to have a no-ejaculation orgasm, but was unable to to it. My love, she at first had trouble not being orgasmic, because it came so easily before. But once we slowed things down, she was able to do it. She would close her eyes and breath deeply, totally relaxed, obviously in another world of imagination which we are having sex. At some point we would just stop.

After a week or two like this, I tell her again that I don't think Karezza is for me. I am not enjoying this orgasm-less sex, and I point out that I don't think she is either. She admits (amid the torrents of arguing that ensue) that she is not really enjoying the sex like she used to either. Sometimes I think that when she first suggested Karezza, she thought that preventing my ejaculating would solve all her problems, but did not consider what effect it would have on her. After a time, she grudgingly agrees that it is not working out for us, and that maybe we just aren't ready yet. But it comes up in conversation and argument frequently thereafter. "What if you had given it a fair chance?" "I know a man who does this and is the happiest man alive..."

After that, it was downhill from there. Her jealousies and anxieties increased exponentially, which made me close up to her even more. We tried all variety of things to work out our problems, but quite frankly we never ended the argument started by Karezza. There are plenty of mistakes I made in our relationship, things I said to her I shouldn't have, time I should have taken to get to know her better. I often wonder how things might be if I had done certain things differently, and I miss her terribly. But I never question whether Karezza was the solution. It just wasn't. Perhaps there are people with severe sex addictions, porn addictions, erectile dysfunction or marital problems that really do highly benefit from this methodology. I am happy for those people. But it was not for me.

I will always wonder what the true cause of her change in happiness was. One day, we are more in love than ever could be, enjoying our bodies and being together. The next day, she feels "isolated and bored" and wants me to stop having orgasms. I have decided that being such an intelligent woman, she began to feel unappreciated for her mind. Because I enjoyed her body so much, and lovemaking took up so much of our time, she reasoned that I did not appreciate her for who she was. She found in Karezza an explanation for my behavior, and went with that as her explanation. The truth was that I did want to get to know her better, that just takes time. I don't think we were hurting anything by being in love and staying physical. Rather than deal with her own issues around jealousy, knowing that she is unable to maintain friendships with attractive women, be around them with her man, or deal with many other related issues and anxieties, it was easier for her to show what behavior I needed to change, and use CPA as proof.

So sorry~

"I am the most die hard of skeptics, and I find that even when I want to, I can't force myself to believe in things like Chakras, body energies, or the more spiritual side of things."

It's pretty much impossible for something to work if you don't *believe* in it or if you think it's bunk~~

She probably saw that in you and perhaps wanted to free herself up to find someone who believes the way she does--nothing wrong in that--I'm afraid I would feel the same way. It has to be *both* people equally involved for it to work.

So sorry you lost your relationship over it~~



I'm so sorry for your pain. I lived that same cycle repeatedly until I began learning more about our sneaky genes.

It's very hard to go from passionate lovemaking to karezza. For one thing, if you've been "going at it" for a while, you're hooked on the neurochemicals of orgasm and needing your fix - even more than you were at the beginning of your romance - before all the mind-blowing stimulation. So when someone tries to take hot sex away, you (and she) actually go through a sort of withdrawal. It sucks, and it makes it very difficult to feel the subtle, more sustainable, benefits of karezza. So it's the worst possible time to try something unfamiliar that relies on gentler, sustainable stimulation.

My sense is that you will have to repeat this nasty drama a few more times with different partners before you can come to terms with the reality: biology usually wins in passionate affairs (and moves us great lovers onto new partners so we can spread our genes with them). Smile It's dreadfully unfair that by being such a great lover you get kicked in the teeth, but....

As you experienced, generally one partner or the other hits a sort of neurochemical wall, and the friction starts. I predict that you will, if you keep experimenting (and I hope you will), eventually run into a partner who wants her orgasm fix more than you do (a ways into the relationship, of course). Then you'll know what it feels like to be on the other side. You will find that being used as someone's fix is really uncomfortable when your honeymoon neurochemicals wear off - even though you still like women and sex. I predict it will even make *you* cranky, and make you act "not like yourself." And your partner will think you've transformed into a jerk.

At that point, you, too, will begin to look around for answers. Until then, it will always be your partner's "issues" that seem to be the problem...never biology. I can't tell you how many times I fell for that reasoning. Smile And, of course, I didn't see my own "issues"...just his. But the fact is, biology *was* the issue - as I discovered by process of elimination.

I know that if I had understood that, I'd probably still be with my first sweetheart. The men in my life have been wonderful, and when the neurochemical haze wore off after each break up (regardless of which of us hit the wall first), I'd wonder, "What the hell happened??" Sad

If you read your account carefully, you'll see that the deterioration began *before* your failed karezza experiment, so while karezza didn't rescue the relationship, it didn't cause the problems either.

It sounds like the two of you have enormous potential. I hope that after some time passes, and your brains "reboot," you might try another round, perhaps with a far slower, yet sensual, start. What do you have to lose...besides the best short-term sex of your life, of course. Wink

At some point, you may have to choose between intoxicating sex with a merry-go-round of partners and a long-term relationship based on delicious, but less intoxicating, sex. Hope you're a faster learner than I was.

Meanwhile, I hope you feel better soon. You sound like a lovely man who adores sex and women. Those are good qualities. Keep an open mind.

I don't want to hijack, but

I don't want to hijack, but my brain forgot a post topic and so it is bouncing all over the place searching for the lost thought.

Do lesser (interpret however one likes) lovers have less problem with the hangovers? Is the hangover intensity tied to the partner's hangover?

Perhaps marriage evolved as a way to force partners by social stigma to stick it out until they got it. Keep in mind single life would have been much tougher way back and the many children needed a longer duration of parenting in total. Although, perhaps we're in denial about self-sufficiency by throwing out the baby with the bath water.

@antio - Can you think of a time when you felt the tables were a bit turned? Do a lot of men experience that or is the stereotype of the male being the sexual aggressor accurate?

Read James Oschmann's Energy

Read James Oschmann's Energy Medicine in Human Therapeutics and Performance to get a scientific understanding of energy work. Ancient people understood physics through their bodies, but they were much more attuned than we were. If you need science to lead you into energy, that book is a good start.

I promise you, "energy" is quite real and takes many forms, but it is true that the subtler forms of matter are harder to measure and attune to. Part of our inability to perceive subtle energies comes from our training culturally to have a very narrow view of focus. When we work with energy medicine, we are working with the Whole and Wholes. This requires a broad awareness. Working with energy is essentially a science of perception, which is inherently tricky. . . . How can you feel that which you cannot perceive? At some point, if you are interested enough, you have to go out on a limb with trust . . . Not much of interest in life happens without it.

Besides, science is only now beginning to learn how to account for subjective experience. The field of phenomenology is very interesting. There's not always enough time to wait for mainstream science to catch up. . . . In the meantime, renegade scientists keep confirming ancient wisdom.

The excitement of new relationships

Antio -

Sorry for the issues that you ran into. I would guess everyone you talk to has had failed relationships that really hurt them. The power of sex is amazing in new relationships as you discover each other. The tough part is that wears off and then you get to know the real person. It happens with new relationships and even new jobs, the honeymoon period wears off.

I think you learned that your girlfriend has her own feelings, beliefs, and ultimately values that were hidden early in your relationship. Even without reading CPA, I've always believed that strong relationships are based on friendship, common values, and genuine love for the other person. I have never believed that hanging from chandelier sex can drive a last relationship. My body told me that a long time ago.

Couple of thoughts for you.

1. You said you were an atheist and that causes struggles for you. I am also an atheist but I believe everyone is spiritual. Regardless of your religion, you can still find purpose by caring about others, betting involved in charities, and finding what truly drives your heart. I've bounced around at what to call myself (maybe more agnostic) because religion doesn't really bother me, it's just not a core belief for me.

2. Did you and your girlfriend really talk once the heavy sex started? Or did you in your own mind figure things were great since you were "meeting her needs". Another hard lesson I learned over the years. Women can be very giving. While you may think you are meeting their sexual needs, they are actually doing it for you. That obviously creates a nasty circle of misinformation. So many relationships get into that belief that all that matters is the finish line. Marnia does a great job explaining the brain chemistry behind that in CPA, but I've also learned that the finish line mentality can create issues in how you see your partner and ultimately a breakdown in communications.

Sometimes life just sucks and you have to find ways to move on (what is that stupid saying -- there are always more fish in the sea?)

For me, no book or theory is ever responsible for my path in life. I ultimately own my choices regardless what others advise me. Reading CPA was a learning experience and Karezza is an idea that I am trying and tweaking.

I'm sure it is a painful time, but it will get better. Someday you may choose to look back and appreciate what the relationship was and the value of the experience.

Also I've observed from the

Also I've observed from the forums here that it is really hard to implement karezza practices when two people are not totally on board and after starting the relationship off with very hot sex. Its much easier to start a relationship out with Karezza.

Karezza poster boy

In an interesting sort of way you would make a great poster boy for karezza. Do you realize that your story reads like a text book case right out of Cupids Poisoned Arrow. I would go back and reread the book, maybe a couple of times. You've gotten some great input here and Marnia spells it out pretty clearly. As an analogy, you cant be flying a jet, run out of fuel and then say, "lets put it in glider mode". Jets don't glide well and you clearly liked jet mode. Dopamine as jet fuel.

Its my observation that women have and innate "feeling" wisdom that a man needs to listen for. Unfortunately women don't often articulate it the way us guys like to have it served up. I think your girl was trying to tell you that things weren't so great in Shangri-La but you were too gone in dopamine la-la land to read the signs clearly. Don't think that I'm wagging my finger at you, well I may be, but its from doing the same thing myself in countless ways. I've been there, done that, many a time. Do you know how often a guy thinks things are going perfectly well, only to discover they're not when the rug gets yanked out from under him, millions maybe billions! Its tough being a guy sometimes.

I know, well, I assume, you feel like your heart has been broken, and man that sucks. If I may say, falling in love is not all that its cracked up to be and I'd be more cautious to go that route next time. My wife and I of 27 or is it 28 years, (hard to keep track), never fell in love with each other and I think its been a blessing. Instead we learned to love each other and after all this time I cant get enough of her, which in a big part I thank karezza for.

Wish you the best in your love life adventures. Dont give up, you'll figure it out.