♥ - Karezza/Non-karezza non-duality?

Submitted by freedom on
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Can we maintain an internal conception of sexuality from both a karezza and a non-karezza mindset simultaneously? Or is it one or the other? Or can we combine them in a non-dual fashion?

Can you clarify what you

Can you clarify what you mean by Karezza / Non-Karezza mindset? (Is it only non-orgasmic vs orgasmic? Or does it include other things?)

Some folks practice a form of Karezza where only the man abstains from orgasm, as in some traditions it is believed that only the man loses vitality via orgasm/ejaculation. This seems like a combined approach to me.

Obviously, there are people who might practice karezza most of the time, but at some point, decide they want children, and so at least for a period of time, must revert to a form of intentional orgasmic sex. However, it doesn't have to be the usual method, where there's a very short period of time between intromission and ejaculation, once could easily spend most of the time in karezza, and then when it feels like the right time, have a planned "sacred" orgasm. (That idea makes me smile.) Since the approximate time of ovulation can be known, this would only need to happen a few days a month - not enough to upset the relationship apple cart. I don't personally know of someone here doing this, but if there is, speak up and let us know.

My partner has the occasional unintentional orgasm. This isn't a contest of perfection, so we don't sweat it. Experience just lets us be a little more aware of any emotion or tiredness that flares up, and laugh it off as just a bit of a hangover.

It's all a continuum - our version of Karezza may, or may not look like anyone else's - maybe we look like two elderly turtles in comparison to Marnia and Gary. Or maybe we look like two bunnies in heat. Either way, I'm pretty sure we *glow*.


Goddesses like inspiring men to conquer dragons.

I'm not exactly sure...I've

I'm not exactly sure...I've been in the sun too much in the past two days. Karezza is not goal oriented. Orgasm may come, but it isn't the purpose. The purpose, if there is one at all, is something larger beyond the goal of orgasm. Non-karezza is orgasmic, procreative, limited in purpose, goal oriented, time limited, etc. One could reproduce in karezza-think, but of course orgasm would be required. Perhaps a karezza mindset is akin to the unconscious as there is much more to our sexuality than the conscious orgasm that we can induce at will. What would happen to a long-term karezza practitioner if they decided to revert to orgasmic sex for a while? The neurochemicals might revert, but the new knowledge is there. So perhaps there can ultimately be a unified, non-dual sexuality that is sustained by karezza-think.

My husband and I have

My husband and I have already started talking about how to incorporate Karezza and conceiving our next child. Since we now know we don't have any physical fertility problems, it would be a lot less stressful for us to try and conceive the slow way. But I can tell you that most couples would take close to a year to conceive if they were only having orgasms when they thought they were ovulating... you just can't tell when you're ovulating unless you pee on one of those ovulation test kits every day. Most people who are TTC have orgasmic sex at least every other day, and even then your chances are only about 30% of actually conceiving that month. While we were TTC, it was so exciting to be taking that next step in our life together that we felt really close all the time and multiple orgasms a day didn't seem to matter! But I have heard much more stressful stories from couples TTC, so maybe we were an exception and Karezza could help a lot of TTC couples stay close.

Forget the arguments

They never lead anywhere. The fertilization reflex is strong in all of us...for good evolutionary reasons. Smile

Everyone should experiment to find out for themselves. It's likely, based on what little research has so far been done, that very few of us are swans - given the level of sexual stimulation common in our culture today. (Things may have been easier for bonding in the past.)

It's also likely that very few of us will see the truth unless we're consistent for three weeks at a stretch. This doesn't mean the effects are necessarily small; it means they're subtle (subconscious) and easy to project onto other rationalizations.

In my humble opinion

Once you develop a true understanding of the benefits of Karezza a paradigm shift occurs and you never quite look at the world with the same lens again. You come to realize that following our fertilization driven genetic programming is what drives the extreme endorphin cycling and the resulting perception changes in how we see our partner and the world. Possessing this knowledge is like opening Pandora’s Box in that once you learn the cause and effect of your neurochemistry there is no going back. No putting the knowledge back in the box so to speak. So in terms of Karezza/Non-Karrezza simultaneous mindset – I think not. But you can use this knowledge to take conscious control of your sexuality – so if you choose to be orgasmic you do so with a more complete understanding of what happens when you engage with another in this way. Or you can choose to follow the sacred path and engage on a much deeper, much more profound level. Knowledge is power and this knowledge empowering in a way I cannot properly put to words.

As Quizure described my wife and I are among the folks who employ a combined approach where she remains orgasmic while I abstain. We got to this point through lots of exploration, introspection, and truly connecting to what is going on in our bodies during intimate activities. By paying very close attention to the details we came to understand that as a man ejaculatory orgasm was very depleting for me and the neurochemical fallout from endorphin cycling was bad news. My wife on the other hand is like the energizer bunny and even seemingly endless multiple orgasms do not appear to affect her negatively at all. So far the dynamic of this combined approach is working very well for us and we are enjoying a level of intimacy and connection far beyond even what we enjoyed during the honeymoon phase of our relationship over twenty years ago. And the sex? Absolutely mind bending and easily the most enjoyable of our lives. And to frame this properly our relationship has always been solid. We were very content for many years with conventional male burst pattern sexuality (until we found out just how much more was available). Our delving into sacred sex practice and Karezza simply an enhancement that makes our good thing that much better. My wife and I have had numerous conversations along the way concerning this and both of us agree that our version of Karezza is way better than the fertilization driven sex we engaged in before. Will we ever get to full on Karezza where my wife abstains as well? Who knows? But we will maintain conscious control of our sexuality and remain on this path to see where it leads. Good stuff!

We are particularly fond

of early morning PIV while spooning and have also watched entire movies during afternoons/nights "connected" like this. Neither one of us could tell you much about the movie(s) because our focus is on the delicious ebb and flow of energy between us and the outside world just disappears. For us the energy exchange and connection are way more important than anything else and even my wife would say her orgasms are like the icing on what is already a delicious cake. We do have encounters that do not lead to orgasms for her but more often than not such sessions just prime her for another torrid session later on that does lead to orgasm.

In the past when we engaged in high friction fertilization driven sex our pattern was very conventional - engage in sufficient foreplay to get each of us ready for penetration, then go to town with vigorous motion until orgasm was achieved. I always tried to be a considerate lover and at the time always held off until she got hers before my release. It was so performance driven neither one of us was really able to relax and all of her orgasms occurred via clitoral stimulation.

Now our encounters are anything but athletic and our only "goal" is to connect on the most intimate level we can and enjoy all the pleasure we are capable of generating together. My wife claims I bring much more energy to our joining now and since there is no "rush" to finish both of us have learned to slow down and really revel in all the sensations two partners are able to create during extended play. My wife finds the relaxed state combined with all the energy going back and forth almost impossible to resist - only now unlike the past most of her orgasms are triggered by "G" spot/vaginal barrel stimulation. She says having longer sessions allowed her to relax into and fully enjoy the sensations from having me inside her and she was able to connect with nerve endings down there she never knew she had - and as a result is now more orgasmic than ever with much less deliberate stimulation.

Our experience

We found that in the early days (before my brain rewired and I did not know how to shut off the "go for orgasm" valve, lol) whenever my mind went to orgasm and I started letting it go off that cliff, he would have a really hard time not ejaculating right then and there--there was a time or two when he would only have half an erection and an ejaculation would come out of seemingly nowhere. He said that whenever my mind switched over to orgasm mode, it felt like he was being sucked into a deep, dark tunnel and it would feel like he no longer had control. And this is a man who in the early days of us having conventional sex, could delay an orgasm indefinitely.

So I think what happens in karezza is your minds begin to meld and the energies become so close that a thought in one person's mind can be felt in the other's.

And now, when I have an orgasm that is not brought on by my mind (one where it happens without me thinking ahead to it or trying for it), he can feel it when it happens, but it doesn't affect him. But there are other things he can no longer do that he used to be able to do with no problem--for example, if he touches my nipple or grabs my derriere at certain times, that is way too much and is a huge trigger and we have to stop and slow way down.

It is an amazing thing. That's call I can say about it, lol.


What I meant~

In the examples I gave, I meant that doing those things were too much for *him* at the time (not me)~~if he allows himself to get to a "6" or so in excitement, then certain things (even tongue-kissing) can be too much for him *at that moment* (at other times, it's fine). We just stop and relax and let things subside before continuing when that happens.

But these triggers will be different for everyone~~


Hello recreatingone

Please look at my response to Marnia above - did not see your post until I had already submitted. In the past my wife needed deliberate clitoral stimulation via oral, manual, or the coital alignment technique (whereby the man rides "high in the saddle" and grinds his pubis into his partner's clitoral area during intercourse) to achieve orgasm. Very typical as the majority of women need at least some clitoral stimulation to achieve orgasm. Fast and furious with lots of friction never did much for her unless additional clitoral stimulation was provided - so I learned to stay in deep and ply her with the gentle rocking and grinding that she needed. Without the typical fast and furious thrusting it was easier to maintain control and not get in trouble myself. We also found out somewhat early on that my semen changed the environmental conditions in her vagina and triggered endless yeast infections so I had an additional reason not to ejaculate inside her. If you care to look some of my other posts get more in depth on this and our journey to this point. With practice and experience your ejaculatory control gets better (especially when you begin to see the benefits) so it gets easier with time.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks Everyone -

This thread has really helped me in understanding the "technique" and purpose of Karezza. Like one person stated, I too am "green" and my wife and I are at the beginning stages of putting Karezza into practice.