(Darryl) I know exactly what this question means from experience, but that memory is a very distant one. There isn't a bone in my body, (or a boner either, for that matter) that has even the slightest draw towards conventional orgasm/stimulation sex. And I don't say this from some "right" or "this is better" perspective. Karezza sex is simply way, way, way more pleasurable. For me there's no morality behind the choice to forgo orgasm; it's just plain delicious.
From someone who's made it out of orbit, I can tell you that if you stay the course and break out of the those gravitational forces, I believe you will find the entire experience very sweet and almost effortless. You'll look back and go, "What was it I thought was so great about having orgasms?"
It's obviously different for different folks but I think it takes anywhere from 6 months to a year to really get in the karezza groove.
Just so you know, there's a wide variety of experience under the non-orgasmic umbrella and personally I'm not one for soft penis play. Hell, my wife wants no part of that. It's full hardness for her all the way. We even get a little close to the edge sometimes, but there's still no draw to orgasm and the motion is almost always deliciously slow.
I don't think the conversation that karezza awakens between the penis and vagina (as well as the whole body) is happening between you two because if it were, you'd be hearing it. You would not be bored. No way, not possible. Every single stroke inside your wife could be ecstasy, just being in her, period, could be heaven. Just feeling that she wants you in her. The warmth and softness of her skin pressed against you, her fragrance, everything about her should delight you. She should BE pleasure. For me, this is the language of karezza, delighting in my woman, in the moment, to be received by her. This is true pleasure.
I find the best way to awaken this coversation, is to adore your woman. The pleasure I seek is in her, IS her, not in my escalating stimulation and ensuing orgasm. Adore her eyes, the way her hair falls and frames her face. The way she smells, the cadence of her feminine voice. Whatever you find delightful about her, see it and drink her in. In contrast, if it's your pleasure you seek, then her delights (which can go very deep) you will most likely miss. But if it's her you adore and enjoy, then your pleasure will come naturally. When you make this shift, she will feel it and open up to you more, deepening the pleasure you both experience. This is the karezza dance, the dance of two.
It sounds like you continually use conventional sex as the measuring stick to compare karezzza with. I find conventional sex and karezza two very different experiences. Karezza can never really be compared with conventional sex; they operate in two different paradigms. Remember, conventional sex is a fertilization-based framework, and karezza-style sex is a bonding-behavior one. You can't use a fertilization framework to measure karezza; you have to move to the karezza modality to know what it has to offer.
There's really no right and wrong here. If you're getting bored and losing interest in sex with your wife, then I personally wonder if experimenting with karezza is a good thing. Maybe it's not the right time for karezza. Maybe wait until you are really drawn to this way of making love.
(Darryl to a woman) A man generally loses focus and participation during sex when he is soft. An erection is usually an expression of masculine force alive in the male body. When first attempting karezza-style lovemaking, a certain amount of arousal is probably required to capture a man's attention, especially a reluctant one.
It sounds like you two are on your way but if you find yourself losing him, you may want to up the arousal level to keep his attention, as long as he stays commited to not orgasming. Meet in the middle.
If I had one piece of advice to give your man it would be to refrain from orgasming if he continues to self-pleasure. If he keeps on orgasming and ejaculating when he's on his own, his brain will stay in the old, well worn pattern. It won't create space to develop a new way of approaching lovemaking. Instead of orgasm-driven masturbation he could consider "solo cultivation," which is developing an erection, feeling the arousal flow and simply playing with the energy rather than ejaculating it out.
If this is difficult for him and he's finding the Exchanges a little tame for his taste, you could consider offering him as much intercourse as he would like as long as he commits to refraining from orgasm. I'm a strong believer in both partners yielding something to make new changes easier. Usually if one person is doing most of the yielding, even if it's just a false perception, that person can dig their heels in and end up sabotaging the shift you want to see.
These are just some thoughts for you. You may be well on your way without any changes in your approach. In the end only you and he can decide what you will create together.
(Quizure) Karezza is more than warm sex. Give it time. I didn't start getting the full on waves of energy until this year. Relaxing even more!
I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10, we hover around 4 to 6, which is our sweet spot. Maybe warmer or cooler than some others, it works for us. Instead of going from 1 to 3 to 7 and on to 11 in just a few minutes, we hang out at 5 to 6 for anywhere from 15 minutes (usually on work-day mornings) to 2 hours (ahhh, weekends!). By the time I get to what I'd call an 8 or 9, I have to either stop, or I will orgasm - the intense blissy love feeling shuts down, and the horny/must come drive takes over, and I feel very disconnected.
I don't know if my partner and I were 'meant' to be, but we're really good together, and Karezza only made it better. Better than I expected, and in ways I never imagined it would.
But this past year of our Karezza experiment made me see that the source of feeling 'in love', in it's pure form, is always inside me. And it's pure form is the same no matter if I'm loving my partner, the memory of my new born babies, or a cuddly kitten. When my heart is open, and I'm with (or think about) someone I love, the love is just there, all glowing and content.
Because I learned to be consciously heart-open during Karezza, I can now open my and and connect with love directly. This caused me to reflect on all my prior love-affairs, and I mentally went through my 'love-affair' inventory, and determined which of those failed relationships were truly based on love, because when I remembered the person, the love was still there, but somehow purified feeling - untainted by any of the angry fights, jealousies or other bad things that we did to one another. It's a strangely chaste thing - and it's not sexual in nature (at least not for me), even though I expected it would be. (I kind of feared doing this, as I thought it might some how reignite the unmanageable 'high' kind of love I had felt in the past.) Anyway, it's been a wonderful soul lifting experience for me.
(wfk007) I'm a few months into karezza and I'll share our experiences, many of which were helped by folks on this forum.
My biggest struggle has been wiping out the notion that good sex = orgasm. Even a few months in I find myself slipping into the finishing mode. I can honestly say that when karezza is working, I enjoy much more over "hot" sex. The main reason why is the relaxation and closeness I get from karezza. At the end of karezza I want to hold my wife in bed when I sleep, at the end of "hot" sex I want to sleep on my own.
So lesson one for us was to take it slow. Cuddling, light spooning, and warm touch. As we progressed the one thing that really started an energy flow was me cupping my wife's breast while she held my penis. The electricity is amazing. So amazing that I have to watch myself.
We still struggle doing a lot of intercourse with karezza and are taking that very slow.
For visualization I use mindfulness concepts. I lay next to my wife and think only of the moment. The feeling of her skin, the warmth, the relaxation, and the calm from another persons touch. So I try to live only in that moment and ignore everything else on my mind. I usually works well and really calms me -- again I enjoy that over hot sex.
But I'll be honest. I still get libido spikes and I struggle with that. My wife is happy passing on orgasm, my brain is still getting used to that. So we vary how much we do. Some nights are just holding and enjoying the time together.
Karezza has brought us closer together than we have been for years.
It is different for everyone and I'm sure different with the place you are at in your relationship.
(Rachel) Not boring. What I focus on during lovemaking is *mostly* his penis and how it feels, and just wrap my thoughts around it at all times, lol~~I try not to let my mind wander away from our genitals at all. And he does the same. He imagines showering me with light from the head of his penis and I can truly feel it when he is really focusing (I get those shivers called "kriyas").
And my breasts...whenever he touches them, sucks on them, whatever...I like to imagine (and I know this probably sounds weird) milk coming from them...which must translate to energy or light coming from them to him.
Honestly, compared to the days of "hot sex," we both can now feel every cell of our bodies being ignited, and we really have a hard time stopping. You practically have to get a crowbar to pry us apart once we get started.
(SnowyOwl) There was a very brief period where I found karezza boring--while I was still getting over hot sex. I missed the intensity and the excitement of what I'd known in spite of its all-too-clear drawbacks. But, that period lasted--perhaps a day, two? Not nearly enough to sway me. And, Karezza has its own amazing rewards.
Coming back to the moment with your mind is the key practice. Relaxing into/merging with/opening around whatever delicious sensation you are having is the next one.
Diana Richardson suggests the similar method of "turning and looking" or "turning the energy back on itself" especially if the penis has touched something that produces an odd sensation. That allows energy to expand.
My recommendation is to read as much Diana Richardson as you can find and just relax. Don't worry about how your karezza is developing day to day. It will continue to develop, to grow and change without your worrying about it, if you just keep practicing.
(Marnia) If you've had an orgasm recently, the "boringness" of karezza can be closely related to where you are in your post-orgasm cycle. I find that I'm much harder to please on every level during week two. Not every minute, you understand, but off and on during that week. Not saying everyone has exactly the same cycle, by the way. A girlfriend wrote me not long ago that here worst days are 3-10.
My point: Try not to assess the merits of karezza during your post-orgasm period.
([Mrs.] tornfromabook) I mentioned karezza felt a bit boring at one point (drifting off to sleep, mind wandering, etc). My problem turned out to be two things:
Number one, a lack of communication that lead to one or both of us only half-heartedly participating. If both of us weren't enthusiastic about giving to each other via our positive poles... nothing really was received by our negative poles!
Number two, my clitoris was used to being stimulated and my vagina hadn't really woken up yet. In other words, I had the same old reboot to go through that the porn users here do! Shortly afterward, we started having the waves of ecstasy without any movement that the more experienced karezzi here talk about.
The energy that I feel moving into me via my receiving pole wasn't always there, and I knew it wasn't there because karezza *was* boring! I had to first close my eyes and envision it (I'm a visual person) and then I had to really relax in order to actually feel it. I mean REALLY relax. Every little nugget of anything I felt during intercourse, I would tell myself to breath and relax into it and just receive his energy (this is the opposite of conventional sex, in which tension is used to focus on one's own escalation). We look into each others eyes, breathe together, stroke each others hair and face... whatever it takes to help each other stay relaxed, open and not goal oriented. We soon get in sync and start to feel it. The more we relax and breathe, the more intense it feels. It's kind of a mind-fuck when you first feel it, since we're so used to only feeling energy rise with effort. We still move now and then, but it feels more like dancing now. When you are focusing on giving to another, and receiving is just something that happens... you find that you get a lot more.
(Darryl to guy on forum) One of the interesting things around Karezza are the idea's about what Karezza is and is not. The Karezza umbrella is pretty broad. I think plenty of what you were doing is Karezza. Personally I dont just penetrate my wife and then cuddle. We definitely move, not like a pile driver, but movement is absolutely part of our Karezza practice. We let the energy of the moment dictate the movement. By that I mean, we follow the pleasure, what we are drawn to.
The reason I choose karezza style love making is because IT'S SO PLEASUREABLE. There's no moral approach here, its simply way more enjoyable than conventional sex, at least for us. If it wasnt, I woundnt do it, period. We arrived at love making karezza style by feel, we were drawn in that direction. We had no instruction or any idea there was such a name as "Karezza" for what we were doing, in fact we thought we were the only people doing it. Who would ever, in their right mind, have both the man and woman forgo orgasm?? We figured no one else could be as nuts as us. I stumbled upon this web site, discovered other people were doing this, and that there was a name for it. I say all this to explain that we were just following our joy - not 'trying to take the high road sexually.'
You say, "Is the idea really to connect via the genitals but not necessarily pleasure each other through them" My experience is, its both. We connect AND pleasure each other via the genitals. I have no interest in forgoing the pleasure my genitals offer me and my partner. As far as thrusting goes, a lot of friction is a desensitizer. When you go slow the genitals come alive with sensation. Slow movement is so alive with feeling. What I will say, is that it takes a bit of time to wake up the genitals from their usual mode of operation. Its a movement from stimulation to sensation. From my experience stimulation is a lot in the mind where sensation is all in the body. We may go to stillness when were done and I stay in her, but my wife has no intest in a flacid penis. She wants it fully erect. No complaints from me.
I would classify karezza as intercourse without orgasm and without vigorous movement. Theres a lot of room under this definition to engage in ways that pleasure you both. Sometimes thought it takes being a bit quite to pick up on the sublte sexual energies. Once you do they become far from "subtle." "Divinely delicious" comes to mind.
There is one more piece, and that is karezza creates this deep bond with your partner. A lot of the friction that commonly takes place in relationships melts away into a sweet pleasant harmony. A pretty nice side benefit in my book, wouldnt you say?
If you and your partner enjoy more thrusting sex as you say try slowing it down by incruments. Rather than going from action sex to laying there without movement, just reduce the movement slowly and start tuning into to the subtle sexual energies that lie beneath the surface of conventional sex. Your genitals have a language of there own if you listen carefully.