♥Day 22 - Negativity and Concerns

Submitted by Nicholas on
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I'm not feeling good today. I'm not sure why.

I have the same feeling of being in a "trance" that I'd get after watching pornography, where it's like I'm unaffected by everything around me... disassociated. I feel like a "blank stare," and have a lack of inner coherance. It's not nice! The last time I felt like this was after my last relapse, 22 days ago, when I joined the forum. Have any of you guys felt like this?

I've had a lot of negativity going through me. Anger (rage). Confusion. Worry. Paranoia. Feelings of hate and blame towards the world.

I've had negativity coming up regarding my relationship.

My whole perception is colored by negativity.

My girlfriend and I did karezza over the past few days; I'll try to remember how things have gone.

On Saturday night, we had a long session, maybe two hours of karezza. At the end, I felt great. I felt, perhaps, better then when I orgasm. I couldn't continue though. I felt I had to stop, even though I felt good. It felt like "too much." When we stopped, all I could do was hug her. In the morning, we continued, perhaps for another hour. It felt great, waking up hugging, moving into karezza, like we hadn't stopped.

However, I've been worrying that we aren't slow enough. Sometimes we go slowly (the time I write about above, we were going slowly), but there are times when I think we go too fast, and I go into performance mode. I know that she enjoys it when I go fast, though, so when I see her enjoying, it can be hard to slow down. Eventually I do, but, with the concern in the back of my mind that I'm not doing karezza "properly." As soon as I start going fast, I become disconnected and less present (incidentally, in the past, I'd lose my erection during sex whenever I'd start going fast).

On Sunday evening, we did more karezza, for a couple of hours. Towards the end, I felt negative inside. It was like there was no love in my touches, and my perception was colored in the same way... I felt no love in her touches (even if there was love there). I told her, "I feel disconnected, how do you feel?" She said she felt good, that she didn't feel any disconnection. I had negative and doubtful thoughts coming up about our relationship, and I felt frustrated in general.

In the past, before coming on the forum, I found the idea of having sex with just one woman difficult (i.e. having a long-term girlfriend). I felt that my girlfriend was a great girlfriend, but I was also finding every other girl on the street attractive. I had a lot of temptation to approach other women, and had to stop myself from doing so, feeling that the higher path to take was to develop the relationship. At the same time, I found myself less attracted and interested in sex with my girlfriend. It was confusing, annoying, and frustrating!

It seems that what I was going through was to do with the pornography addiction, and everything that Gary talks about in the videos. My primitive brain wants to impregnate other women, and finds the girlfriend less enticing (just like the lab rats). Does this sound right? What I was experiencing in the real world was the same brain process that goes on with pornography?

Incidentally, I did some research into the Maddona/Whore complex around the time, since it seemed related to what I was going through. I'm wondering if the porn addiction and what goes on in the brain could be related in any way to the Madonna/Whore complex? I'm not sure, but it seems like a practice like karezza could help to heal the complex.

I wasn't expecting to write the stuff above! But, I suppose it describes how I feel now. I was experiencing a lot of stuff that was harmful to our relationship, that seems related to the issues with pornography. And I know now, I can't trust my perception, in this negative state.

Also, it explains why karezza has been so refreshing for me. I know that I have much to heal inside before I can truly love, and have the capacity to give myself totally to one woman, and karezza seems to be a great practice that is helping me to heal.

So... I don't know, really, why I'm in this negative state. But, it seems like it might be related to not doing karezza properly - activating the pleasure/reward circuitry of my brain too much? Too much stimulation, not enough focus on sensation? Perhaps those moments of going too fast need to be completely discarded?

Perhaps I'm experiencing a chaser? Is it possible without having had an orgasm? Last night I felt like I just wanted to be alone. Also, we did do a lot of karezza this weekend. Maybe like, five or six hours in total, which could be very stimulating to the primitive brain if we're not going slowly enough.

Or, perhaps this is just part of the rebooting process, this kind of low? I've heard guys talk about "flatlining," too... although, I'm not sure what it is - what is it?

Or, perhaps I just need to be patient, and allow time to let the negative storm pass.

My personality type gets all critical and perfectionistic when I'm in stress, so right now all I hear in my head is, "you gotta read more about karezza!" I also intend to read Marnia's book, as soon as possible. Even when I'm not in stress, I'm generally impacient with the process of learning. I have the capacity to learn quickly, however, nothing ever feels quick enough for me. That's a nice way in which my girlfriend balances me... she's very pacient. Yesterday she said, "it won't always go perfectly... it's just the learning process."

Thank you for reading, guys. Any comments are welcome :)

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Here's my thought

Withdrawal just has some ups and downs...even under the best of circumstances. Did you see these graphs: http://yourbrainonporn.com/rebooting-accounts Brain changes aren't linear. Sad

Yes, it's possible that you brought on the dip by overstimulating yourself. If so, big deal. It probably won't be the last time. Smile

Suggestion: when you feel disconnected during sex, just stop as soon as possible and exchange some non-erotic touch that you both like.

Finally, if your girlfriend is still orgasming that can cause the bubble to burst, too, for some people. Dunno why, but various people have commented on it. Some couples, however, don't experience that. It's a mystery.

Thanks Marnia

I'm feeling a bit better now. I was feelin' particularly low writing the above. Thanks for the link - I like the graphs. It's a reminder to be accepting of the ups and downs as I go along. The change in mood was quite sudden, which is why I thought it might be related to overstimulation this weekend. It helps to remind myself that I'm rewiring my brain after 10 years of watching porn every day! And that's a nice suggestion that I'll definitely incorporate when I feel disconnected. Also, my girlfriend isn't orgasming - she's always only been able to orgasm via clitoral stimulation. She says that for her, karezza is great, because she feels that I'm more connected. However, she feels that karezza is similar for her as lovemaking has been in the past, because she hasn't been able to come to orgasm during sex.

Thank you,

I really appreciate your support. :)

We talked about everything last night, and decided to just cuddle, and not have sex for the next couple of days. She's very supportive. And the cuddling and non-erotic touch feels relaxing and healing. I'm noticing more desire and sexual thoughts, so I have to keep on top of the impulses and urges over the next few days!

You're only on day 22!

You're only on day 22! Sounds like you are doing fantastic. I do find that I know when I've gone too close to the edge because I get a hangover effect with my mood, similar to if I had an orgasm but not quite as bad. It's normal. Just be sure to tell your girlfriend everything that comes up, so she doesn't take it personally if you snap at her or ignore her, etc... is she observing her own mental states as well during all this? Is she experiencing too much heat too? I know my husband doesn't seem affected if I get too heated, but other people on this forum have said it happens to them. You sound like me, with the whole bit about "I need to read more!" haha. It kind of drives my husband crazy, he would prefer I just relax and go with the flow rather be be so analytical.

I had to google "Madonna/Whore" complex. Interesting. I always thought men viewed women as either pure or slutty, but neither of them being positive. The wiki article seems to imply that the "saintly" women are viewed positively? I can understand viewing your wife/girlfriend as a mother figure... if she was actually the mother of your children. But I have a hard time believing some of that Freudian stuff in today's context :) I don't think men lose interest in women sexually because they had cold mothers and they view their partners as their moms... I think men learn not to open up and trust women with their hearts if they had cold mothers, and THAT leads to them not being interested in their partners sexually, when they lose that emotional connection.

-Mrs. Tornfromabook

Thanks Mrs...

Tornfromabook! I read your reply a couple of days ago, and haven't got around to replying until now. I really appreciated your response - it's nice to hear that others have experienced the hangover effect even if there was no orgasm. I also really liked your reminder to be sure to tell my girlfriend everything that comes up, to be open and honest about everything. I appreciated that a lot. It can be difficult to be open about the negative thoughts and feelings - initially I was worried that she might be upset. However, she listened openly and understands that it is due to fluctuations happening in the brain. I feel lucky to be with her. She's very supportive, and seems mature and balanced, and is keen to practice karezza :) I realized from all of this that it's very important to keep communicating. I tend to talk a lot about how I feel, but she's a little quieter in general. Also, for her, it seems that karezza isn't a major change (as much as it is for me)... she says that she's never experienced orgasm during sex, so it's similar for her now as it was before. However, she's also learning and enjoying the increased intimacy. Today she mentioned that she sees how the problems which arose in her previous relationship may be due to orgasm. I'll continue being open and communicative with her :)

Regarding the Madonna/Whore complex... I don't know a great deal about it. It's something I was looking into when I was noticing these conflicting thoughts coming up when we had first got together. It seemed to fit... however, I don't really know the truth about it, and Gary and Marnia's material explains what I've been going through so perfectly. It's nice to have this new understanding, and to be in the process of healing the issues with karezza. :) I liked what you mentioned though, about men not learning to trust women with their hearts, and that being a reason for losing sexual interest in their partner - makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for your support and inspiring comments :)

And thanks for adding the heart, Marnia!